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  1. Home
  2. /Discussion
  3. /UnitedHealth pays its own physician groups 17% more than outside ones
  1. Home
  2. /Discussion
  3. /UnitedHealth pays its own physician groups 17% more than outside ones
Last activity 21 days agoPosted Nov 3, 2025 at 9:10 PM EST

Unitedhealth Pays Its Own Physician Groups 17% More Than Outside Ones

brandonb
65 points
82 comments

Mood

heated

Sentiment

negative

Category

other

Key topics

Healthcare
Insurance
Unitedhealth
Debate intensity85/100

UnitedHealth pays its own physician groups 17% more than outside ones, sparking criticism of the company's practices and the broader healthcare system, with commenters expressing frustration and outrage.

Snapshot generated from the HN discussion

Discussion Activity

Very active discussion

First comment

35m

Peak period

69

Day 1

Avg / period

35.5

Comment distribution71 data points
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Based on 71 loaded comments

Key moments

  1. 01Story posted

    Nov 3, 2025 at 9:10 PM EST

    23 days ago

    Step 01
  2. 02First comment

    Nov 3, 2025 at 9:45 PM EST

    35m after posting

    Step 02
  3. 03Peak activity

    69 comments in Day 1

    Hottest window of the conversation

    Step 03
  4. 04Latest activity

    Nov 5, 2025 at 12:12 PM EST

    21 days ago

    Step 04

Generating AI Summary...

Analyzing up to 500 comments to identify key contributors and discussion patterns

Discussion (82 comments)
Showing 71 comments of 82
cebert
23 days ago
7 replies
Does anyone have something positive to share about UnitedHealth?
tombert
23 days ago
2 replies
I don't. I have their "platinum" insurance, and they still seem to fight any claim we file.

For example, my wife got knee surgery recently, and the doctor recommended we rent a CPM machine to help her knee avoid atrophying. Renting the machine is $200 a week. Insurance said it was "optional" and refused to cover any of it. We ended up buying a used one on eBay for about $900, which is a lot but not insurmountable for us.

It kind of annoys me though, because not all their clients are yuppie software people who have disposable income. A lot of people can't afford to rent a machine for $200 a week or buy one for $900 on eBay, but they do make it much easier for the leg to heal better. Isn't "stuff that most people can't afford but would help with healing" the stated purpose for health insurance? It seems more than a little unfair that my wife's leg is more likely to heal better purely because she's married to a software engineer.

I really have no fucking idea what the difference between the cheap and expensive UHC plans. It sure seems like I'm paying many thousands of dollars more for medical stuff than I was for equivalent services with Anthem. Oh, well, at least my premiums are higher too, so that's fun.

Hopefully obviously I don't advise shooting a CEO for several reasons (both ethical and legal), but I have to say that I was unable to cry many tears when I heard it happened.

gruez
23 days ago
1 reply
>Isn't "stuff that most people can't afford but would help with healing" the stated purpose for health insurance?

I thought the operative term was "medically necessary"? "would help with healing" can theoretically cover everything from protein shakes for knee injuries, to iPads to help with stroke recovery. A CPM machine is on the far end of this, closer to "medically necessary" than the other examples, but you have to draw the line somewhere, so some reasonable-but-theoretically-optional equipment gets excluded.

tombert
23 days ago
1 reply
Sure. I guess I would draw the line in a different place.

There are plenty of things that aren't strictly "necessary" but are still provided by insurance. My wife's painkiller medication isn't strictly necessary, she wouldn't die without it and the leg would probably heal the same way, but they covered that because obviously they should cover that. I feel like a piece of medical equipment like a CPM machine is more necessary than painkillers.

elcritch
23 days ago
1 reply
Well first question to my mind is does a CPM actually help? There's a lot of waste in American Healthcare on expensive but fairly useless treatments.

My guess was that a CPM might fall into this category (I did PhD research in bio mechanics in MatSci). So I googled it and it returned a quote:

> Do doctors still use CPM machines? > The machines are no longer widely used because of the multiple studies that found CPM following knee replacement surgery has minimal benefits. However, some surgeons still recommend CPM following knee surgery when the limited pros outweigh the cons in a particular case. (1)

From an insurers perspective it makes sense not to cover a marginally useful piece of equipment. The better use of resources would probably be covering PT where there's movement and weight on the joint.

1: https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-i-need-a-cpm-following-kne...

tombert
23 days ago
Fair enough. It was still prescribed by the doctor and I would rather have not paid for it.

Even if its benefits are marginal, they’re probably still more tangible than acupuncture and chiropractic, both of which are apparently covered by my insurance, and the CPM machine probably doesn’t cause a stroke like chiropractic does.

danans
23 days ago
> Isn't "stuff that most people can't afford but would help with healing" the stated purpose for health insurance?

You are confusing "health insurance" with a "system that guarantees healthcare as a human-right". Those are different things.

The purpose of health insurance is:

- To constrain healthcare coverage to the minimum allowed by law or the plan contract, therefore maximizing profit margins.

- To provide a shared risk coverage pool to pay for treatment for catastrophic health events that are unforeseen.

- To provide a product to be used as leverage by employers over employees as part of the "benefits" of a compensation package.

Healthcare as a human-right doesn't exist in the United States unless a health situation has gotten so bad that you end up in the emergency room, which is then legally required to provide you emergency healthcare.

droopyEyelids
23 days ago
2 replies
Here's a point about all the insurance companies: UHC administers the medical plan on behalf of your employer. For all practical purposes, they are a whipping boy for the real 'man behind the curtain' (your employer).

Your company (for self-funded plans) actually decides what’s covered and what isn’t, sets copays and deductibles, and ultimately saves or spends money on healthcare costs. UHC’s role is to apply those rules, maintain the provider network, and handle the billing and customer service.

If your company offers insurance, there is someone who can tell the "insurance company" to cover the service they are not covering. Usually the HR Benefits Administrator, or 'plan sponsor'. And they do it all the time! If you have a sad story and the budget is ok for the quarter, they will help! If you are a company officer, you can also have whatever your company can afford.

kiratp
23 days ago
3 replies
This only applies to large employers. Smaller ones are just presentef a limited list of plans to pick from, and the plans change every year. Most of the time, as a startup, you can’t buy a Mag7 equivalent health plan for any amount of money off the marketplace
meetingthrower
23 days ago
1 reply
Mag7 surely is self insured. They have an amazing risk pool of young people. Probably biggest cost is babies. So in this way employer sponsored health insurance screws the rest of the market, as it "hordes" the best risks. The insurance companies then wail about the cost of the risker pool of those of us stuck in the smaller plans...
vjvjvjvjghv
23 days ago
There should only be one risk pool which is the whole country. Unfortunately the republicans want to go the other way and push sick people into high risk pools which will be unaffordable for a lot of people
tombert
23 days ago
Yeah, I work for a smaller company. I'm not sure which options they omitted but I don't think have the same bargaining power as a BigCo.
droopyEyelids
23 days ago
It depends. If your employer is part of a self-funded group of other employers, then there is a group of trustees from all the employers that can approve.

If it's a 'fully insured' group plan then the insurance company is technically in charge, but your company can do an Employer-paid exception (aka carve-out reimbursement) to cover something thats getting rejected. They also have the option to purchase add-on policies to add coverage for upper class stuff like fertility treatments, weight loss drugs, or gender-affirming care.

silexia
23 days ago
Insurance companies are a whipping boy, but for doctors not your employer.

Doctors charge massively high prices, which is why insurance bills are high. Doctors have the most powerful trade union on the planet and strictly limit residencies, thus limiting new doctor supply and keeping prices super high.

jawiggins
23 days ago
1 reply
Yeah I really like their rewards program: https://e-i.uhc.com/uhcrewards

Each year they pay me $1,000 (in the form of HSA deposits, which I can invest) to do basic things like get a checkup, get a flu shot, and get a blood test. I sync my wear-able data and they pay me $1-2 each time I exercise or get enough sleep.

It's great!

krackers
23 days ago
1 reply
>I sync my wear-able data and they pay me $1-2 each time I exercise or get enough sleep

I wonder if the data is sold off and if so whether it's properly anonymized...

Tadpole9181
22 days ago
Where do you think the $1-2 comes from? Insurance company is double dipping to optimize those profits!
rayiner
23 days ago
We have a UHC choice plan at work and it’s been completely invisible, both for me and coworkers I know.

Health insurers are like Congressmen. Most people hate the institution, but are satisfied with their own insurer. https://www.kff.org/affordable-care-act/kff-survey-of-consum...

shrubble
23 days ago
I had them via a previous employer and had serious surgery; they asked me to go through the “get a second opinion” process which was getting all the records to their system and then a virtual/video call, but after that, they paid for everything.
pluto_modadic
23 days ago
if you don't have anything nice to say... :3
jmspring
23 days ago
No, but working at a company that was founded by a bunch of former gov employees, the coverage is mostly ok and some having to manage the refusal bs. What was new to me - a gap that went employed -> consulting -> employed - (same company family) - how damn expensive top tier coverage for a family of three really is - $3700/mo. Insane.
bronco21016
23 days ago
8 replies
It’s terrible that this is an area that is caught up in political ideology. Somehow, healthcare MUST be decoupled from capitalistic incentives. I don’t pretend to have the answer but continuing on this path will lead to worsening patient outcomes. We cannot have corporations expecting to make a dollar off human life.
tiahura
23 days ago
6 replies
United Healthcare isn’t the reason healthcare is unaffordable any more than Geico causes car repairs to be expensive. American demand for healthcare is insatiable, and doctors are a scarce and greedy bunch. That there is a middle man trying to get his 5% isn’t the problem.
cycomanic
23 days ago
1 reply
> United Healthcare isn’t the reason healthcare is unaffordable any more than Geico causes car repairs to be expensive. American demand for healthcare is insatiable, and doctors are a scarce and greedy bunch. That there is a middle man trying to get his 5% isn’t the problem.

Spoken as a software developer who's salaries are approaching or even surpassing doctor salaries while working on optimising "engagement" (or how to make their app the most addictive).

tiahura
23 days ago
I’m a personal injury lawyer who looks at medical bills all day.
mystraline
23 days ago
Wrong. 'Medical insurance companies' do absolutely nothing in terms of health care, drain massive amounts of money in what amounts to a Brazil-style (movie) system, corporate death panels, and a drain on all of our resources.

And its not even a product we want. We dont buy it. The companies we work for do, and never have to dogfood any of it. But for the rest of us, its a take it or leave it proposition.

> doctors are a scarce and greedy bunch.

Speaking of that, an MD is the ONLY profession who is solely controlled how many can apply is controlled by Congress.

Get rid of that, and that would fix a facet.

But getting rid of insurance companies would also work a great deal. Or at least, decoupling work/med insurance would be a start.

Even going full competitive capitalism OR full socialism would be better than the garbage we have now.

stop50
23 days ago
I recommend you to look at Dr. Glaukomfleckens videos about pre authorization.
PaulDavisThe1st
23 days ago
> any more than Geico causes car repairs to be expensive

Given how much cheaper things like body shop repairs are if you do not have insurance, is it really clear that Geico does not cause car repairs to be expensive?

And for that matter, get emergency health care without insurance and then fight the cost to get a massive reduction, and you'll wonder whether it actually is UHC and their ilk that help make healthcare unaffordable ...

yieldcrv
23 days ago
there is a multi-pronged solution necessary that is both intertwined with insurers and also completely separate, so in that part I agree with you

the costs of services are arbitrary and need to be addressed before we can realistically deal with how any insurance pool works, in the US both parties have chiseled at this over the last decade - from getting prices more transparent, to attempting to have a large scale state negotiator - and this makes the conversation more palatable in gaining consensus

not close, but it's not as partisan as people think, despite the parallel existence of entrenched interests

what doesn't have consensus is a forced insurance pool that doesn't address the costs and has no ability to negotiate those costs (yes, this is partially due to the bill being gutted and a handicapped version being the only thing that passed) a deeper review and regulation of costs is the only thing that can help reach consensus

stephenitis
23 days ago
What is the problem breakdown by % in your eatimate?
platevoltage
23 days ago
1 reply
But the answer is easy. Just look toward the North.
shrubble
23 days ago
2 replies
Canadian health care sucks but in a different way; so that’s not the solution either. You can look up the wait times for different procedures on the provincial websites.

Things you can get in 72 hours anywhere near a decently sized American city such as an MRI scan can take months in Canada.

platevoltage
22 days ago
Yeah, that same MRI scan can, and often takes an infinite amount of time here. I never said Canada's system was perfect, but it might as well be compared to what we have going on here.
seanmcdirmid
23 days ago
Every developed country would say their medical system sucks in some way. We (Americans) happen to both pay more for a system that sucks more than those. The results are in our poor life expectancies, and we basically pay twice (privately and once again via taxes) for it.
anonym29
23 days ago
1 reply
Food, housing, and a living wage too. The bare necessities to live must be decoupled from capitalistic incentives.
JumpCrisscross
23 days ago
1 reply
> The bare necessities to live must be decoupled from capitalistic incentives

We don’t have evidence we live in sufficient abundance to guarantee this sustainably even in rich countries. Particularly when bare necessities are decried as cruelty and so cost creep comes to pass.

What we can do: free basic nutrition for all, free prenatal and neonatal care, free preventative medicine and annual check-ups, free access to generics where medically necessary, and a fixed amount of water and electricity to each household. Not enough to be remotely comfortable or long lived. But enough to survive.

robocat
23 days ago
2 replies
So easy to say free when you're expecting others to pay.

Who votes for higher taxes on themselves?

JumpCrisscross
23 days ago
> Who votes for higher taxes on themselves?

People who don't want to have to live amidst poverty. Or vote alongside folks who are struggling. In summary, good people.

ben_w
23 days ago
> Who votes for higher taxes on themselves?

Even if you're selfish (and a lot of people are community spirited), the same people who as shareholders vote for the company to grow rather than to pay out more dividends.

wredcoll
23 days ago
> We cannot have corporations expecting to make a dollar off human life.

That's literally a political ideology.

The answer to problems like this isn't to pretend politics is some kind of abstract system imposed by higher-order beings, its to use political power to fix it.

danans
23 days ago
> Somehow, healthcare MUST be decoupled from capitalistic incentives. I don’t pretend to have the answer but continuing on this path will lead to worsening patient outcomes. We cannot have corporations expecting to make a dollar off human life.

Give yourself more credit! You just stated the answer above.

tormeh
23 days ago
Afaict the original sin of the US healthcare system is having the healthcare providers chosen by employers. That means that the patient is not the customer, the patient's employer is. That in itself has dire consequences.

Privatized health care need not be so bad. Germany has privatized health care, but it's pretty much fine, at least for patients. It's regulated to the moon and back, but afaict so is the US system, just with very different goals. The ACA feels a bit like the beginnings of a German-style system.

kfterrg67
23 days ago
I think the incentive itself is good, but there's too much corrupt abstraction in between.

Ultimately I want good providers to be paid well and poor providers to struggle. That is a good system. We don't have that. We MUST recouple healthcare and capitalistic incentives.

robocat
23 days ago
> healthcare MUST be decoupled from capitalistic incentives

Capitalism pays for our healthcare.

The problem is that Healthcare has an infinite hunger for resources - there is always more that could be spent - and it is always morally correct to spend more (people's lives have high priority).

There needs to be some manner of allocating limited resources between different people with different needs.

Every country seems to find different ways to deal with the fundamental friction of healthcare (unlimited demand and limited resources).

Unfortunately voters don't like the reality of limitations.

vjvjvjvjghv
23 days ago
4 replies
I am close to retirement but far away from Medicare age. The health care situation alone makes me want to leave this country. It’s such a mess. And I don’t see any movement to improve things. It’s just getting worse every year.
SoftTalker
23 days ago
2 replies
I’ve basically opted out. I can’t see that the healthcare system has any incentives to keep me healthy. In fact all the incentives are to keep me medicated indefinitely. No thanks. I have a plan for catastrophic coverage but I stay as far away from hospitals and doctors as I can otherwise.
jancsika
23 days ago
1 reply
What's your maximum out-of-pocket for the catastrophic plan?

Btw-- make sure to double the MOOP since catastrophes can easily straddle the end of one 12-month period and the beginning of the next 12-month period.

SoftTalker
22 days ago
1 reply
Hard to say because differnent things have different coverages but I'd ballpark it at $5K worst case. That would hurt, but it would be managable.
jancsika
22 days ago
1 reply
"Maximum out of pocket" is a single dollar amount listed somewhere in your health insurance plan. It'd be in the ballpark of $8 or $9k. (Again, double it.)

If you are saying you only have $5k saved then your plan effectively reduces potential bankruptcy-level of healthcare debt down to a manageable level of healthcare debt.

If you have a high-deductible healthcare plan (HDHP) through an employer, look into setting up regular contributions from your paycheck into a health savings account (HSA). You can use an HSA to build a healthcare emergency fund (and later invest those saving like you would in a regular retirement account, which is what it turns into when you hit retirement age).

SoftTalker
21 days ago
As it would happen, we're currently in open enrollment so I looked at what is coming for next year. OOP medical max is $4,000 for employee or $8,000 for family for the HDHP plan. So in the ballpark of what I guessed.

It's an amount that would be somewhat disruptive but would not be bankrupting. That's exactly what you want insurance for. People misunderstand insurance when it comes to health care, they think they should never have to pay out of pocket for anything, but that isn't how insurance works for anything else. Insurance is protection from catastrophe, not something that makes routine, predictable expenses go away.

And yes I have an HSA, it is required for HDHP plans. And I make close to the max contribution every year. I've been at that long enough that I have several multiples of my max OOP saved.

danans
23 days ago
> No thanks. I have a plan for catastrophic coverage but I stay as far away from hospitals and doctors as I can otherwise.

This is pretty much the Republican plan for healthcare.

tombert
23 days ago
1 reply
The lack of health coverage has been what has stopped me from starting my own business. I do not want to risk any of my family getting sick and not being able to cover it, but I also don't want to blow through all my savings paying for health insurance waiting until I get a VC to give me money.
iancmceachern
23 days ago
1 reply
It actually gives you more control.

Assuming you have business income to pay for insurance.

Tadpole9181
22 days ago
1 reply
So you see the problem? Of course a successful business will pay healthcare, but few business start successful instead of in debt of some kind.
iancmceachern
22 days ago
1 reply
You gotta bootstrap it, start it as a side thing.
tombert
22 days ago
1 reply
If you work for a BigCo, you're generally not allowed to do a "side thing", or at least they claim ownership and reserve the right to sue you over it if you are caught doing it. I know this isn't the case for every state, but it's still the case in NY; it's one of the (many) reasons I left Apple actually.

I don't think my current gig is so bad about that, but ironically I feel less of a compulsion to leave my current gig and start my own thing because I actually like this job.

iancmceachern
22 days ago
1 reply
Yup, true facts.

Not in California though. One of the (many) reasons we live here.

It's also arguably one of the reasons that the innovation ecosystem that is here exists, and persists.

tombert
22 days ago
Yeah, I should write to a politician, might be an easy win for them to do that in NYC, modeled after California's laws.

For reasons that I've never fully understood, I have had a strong distaste towards California my entire life, else I would have moved there by now. Probably my inner hipster my necessity to feel like I'm doing things different.

SilverElfin
23 days ago
3 replies
It’s not better elsewhere. Healthcare is fundamentally expensive. You can choose between cost, availability of specialists or new treatments, and speed of being seen. The bureaucracy and vague denials under some government healthcare programs make United, Aetna, etc look good.
piva00
23 days ago
1 reply
It's at least better in not making the system a confusing mess of coverage tiers, copays, deductibles, in-network staff in out-network facilities, and all the other jargon used to complicate it to the point where many people don't know if they are covered or not.

Nowhere is absolutely perfect but it's much easier to navigate, and many developed countries have very good care for emergencies and/or life-threatening ailments. It might suck to investigate something chronic but non-life threatening, it won't stress you if you think you are having a stroke and need to call an ambulance.

vjvjvjvjghv
22 days ago
That’s what frustrates me a lot. The system is not only super expensive but also incredibly complex an unpredictable with tons of very costly traps. Basically it combines the worst aspects of the different approaches.
impossiblefork
23 days ago
That isn't really true. The US just happens to train really few physicians and therefore has really few physicians per capita.

In Sweden it's about 2x higher. Of course, they're still experts, so it's somewhat expensive, but not like in the US.

thrance
23 days ago
Pardon the internet lingo, but this is cope. Americans pay way more for their healthcare than citizens of countries with universal healthcare, like France, and their life expectancy is still lower. So clearly, it is better elsewhere. Don't fall into helplessness, the situation can be improved, it will "just" require actual political will to do so, that you unfortunately can't find anywhere among the Right or "moderate" democrats.
burnt-resistor
23 days ago
But you'll get to learn about part D medication plans and Medigap part F*, G, N, and the other 7 gotcha plans that are run mostly by for-profit megacorps that get to change their prices every year. Oh and Medicare Advantage (part C, not to be confused with Medigap parts) is a total scam with lifetime limits that has already fooled 54% of recipients. Traditional Medicare is way too complicated and should be thrown away and replaced with a universal single-payer system without any for-profit corporate bullshit. Also not covered: dental, vision, hearing aids, long-term care, skilled nursing... you and your family need to be be completely broke to receive Medicaid for long-term care.

* So sorry, you can't have this one anymore because part B deductibles are no longer covered due to the neoliberal MACRA 2015 that doesn't care about costs borne by the poorest Medicare recipients.

JCM9
23 days ago
2 replies
United is a disaster of a company. Physicians hate them. Patients hate them. I feel bad for anyone forced to deal with their BS.

Their reputation is so bad I wouldn’t be surprised if they rename the company at some point in hoping people forget that they’re United Healthcare.

tombert
23 days ago
I really hope my employer changes to pretty much any of the other ones eventually. I really hate having to argue on the phone with with a poor representative over everything.

Anthem BCBS and Aetna never gave as much trouble. I know they both have their scandals and it's not like I love any American health insurance company, but I definitely rank UHC lower.

vjvjvjvjghv
23 days ago
My girlfriend is nurse practitioner and she says United is the worst to deal with. They deny everything and it sucks up enormous amounts of time to appeal.
daft_pink
23 days ago
I found it’s terrible too. Especially with dental insurance they negotiate terrible rates so you end up paying a lot more than if you went with the local Blue Cross Blue Shield or Delta dental.
broswell
23 days ago
My experience with United Health Care has been terrible.
silexia
23 days ago
The law of supply and demand controls the high prices we see in healthcare. Doctors have the most powerful trade union on earth and have lobbies for strict limits on the number of new doctors per year by limiting residencies.

Shrink the federal government and its overbearing regulations in healthcare and allow many more people to go through residency to become doctors.

estearum
23 days ago
For-profit pay-viders (payer-provider mergers) should be illegal. In theory they can drive greater efficiencies that pass down to consumers, but in practice pay-vider integration makes available a lot more levers to screw consumers. All of those levers are easier to pull than increasing efficiency of care delivery.

If you want to act as both insurer and provider, then you should have to be a non-profit and have thorough performance monitoring in place to ensure you're passing what's possible back to consumers.

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