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  3. /Iowa City Made Its Buses Free. Traffic Cleared, and So Did the Air
  1. Home
  2. /Story
  3. /Iowa City Made Its Buses Free. Traffic Cleared, and So Did the Air
Nov 23, 2025 at 5:06 PM EST

Iowa City Made Its Buses Free. Traffic Cleared, and So Did the Air

bookofjoe
1 points
1 comments

Mood

informative

Sentiment

positive

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news

Key topics

Public Transportation

Sustainability

Urban Planning

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Very active discussion

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29s

Peak period

50

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16

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  1. 01Story posted

    Nov 23, 2025 at 5:06 PM EST

    9h ago

    Step 01
  2. 02First comment

    Nov 23, 2025 at 5:07 PM EST

    29s after posting

    Step 02
  3. 03Peak activity

    50 comments in Hour 2

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  4. 04Latest activity

    Nov 24, 2025 at 2:36 AM EST

    15m ago

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Analyzing up to 500 comments to identify key contributors and discussion patterns

Discussion (1 comments)
Showing 160 comments
RicoElectrico
9h ago
3 replies
I am impressed there was no report of conservative backlash.
3eb7988a1663
9h ago
3 replies
That is a particularly fine line to walk for the modern conservative. Government should not be picking winners, except for the very targeted tariffs that just happen to benefit company X or Y.
trollbridge
6h ago
I would note that based on my experience in Africa, there were a lot of private buses being operated, ridership was high, and the buses were cheap.

In America we have very few private intra-city buses, ridership is low, and the buses are very expensive when you consider how much goes to them in the way of subsidies.

exasperaited
6h ago
Shouldn't be picking winners -- unless you can bully them for a cut of the business, of course.
blitzar
8h ago
Government should not be picking winners ... the company with the biggest bribe wins.
PopePompus
8h ago
1 reply
Iowa City is the bluest of Iowa cities. It's a university town.
jerlam
8h ago
2 replies
That tracks, it's a situation where most people are going to the same place so public transit has a huge advantage.

I am surprised that the bus wasn't already free; in my college town and the one near it (both had their own bus line), fares are free for all undergraduates.

SoftTalker
6h ago
My experience with bus service in college towns is that the routes between campus and student residential areas get heavy use, while the buses serving the rest of the town drive around nearly empty.
E39M5S62
8h ago
U of I's cambus is free, but it has a limited route in and around the campus. City buses cover a lot more area.
themafia
8h ago
I'm conservative. I think buses should be free. Then they'll actually get used and all the secondary benefits they were supposed to bring will be much more easily realized.

You need public transport in major cities. Not everyone can or should drive.

You need private transportation almost everywhere. Not everyone should be forced to ride public transport just because it exists.

As long as people have an actual choice that's not manipulated in some way then I think the system is fine. It has a public function and it provides immediate and secondary benefits.

b3ing
9h ago
2 replies
I guess once the car companies find out about this, they’ll start lobbying the local government and put an end to this
boothby
9h ago
1 reply
That's how we lost public transit the first time. Here's hoping local government knows their history.
Tadpole9181
9h ago
Now the car companies have way more money and governance is even more disconnected from the people. I mean, look at how the national GOP just nuked legal hemp-derived THC for the booze industry.
bediger4000
8h ago
United States vs National City Lines, Inc. 1947.

Is it cheaper to lobby or to create an incompetent monopoly to ruin things?

id00
9h ago
3 replies
In Brisbane, Australia they run a 6-month trial to make all public transport trips to be 50c (that includes buses, metro, ferries). It was so successful and widely loved that it was a no-brainier for it to be extended indefinitely
II2II
8h ago
5 replies
The real benefits come from eliminating fares.

While I have never lived in a place with free transit, I have lived in places where it was possible to board trains without passing through fare gates and certain busses through the rear exit. It is amazing how much faster boarding is. They probably face some lost fares, but the benefit of faster travel times outweigh the cost.

I also think that those criticizing free fares are disingenuous. None of those cities had problems with (insert stereotypical undesirable group) using public transit. If anything, there were fewer issues because everyone was more inclined to behave since there were more eyes on the trains and busses.

wat10000
8h ago
1 reply
In most systems, fares just about cover the cost of collecting fares. They contribute little if anything to operating expenses. Their effect is to limit usage. That could be desirable, but usually not.
IncreasePosts
8h ago
2 replies
I've tried to calculate this for the New York City Metro, but they spend about $1 billion per year collecting $5 billion per year, out of a budget of $20 billion per year. Year so they would need to make up about $4 billion per year if they were to eliminate fare collection, or increase the budget by 20%.

In my mind it would be a no-brainer for all the benefits you would get from free service, but 20% increase in cost is not an easy sell - especially when a lot of people paying tax on it never go to NYC

bardak
8h ago
2 replies
While we should never expect public transit to be self funding removing fares removes the ability for transit funds to scale with ridership, there is a reason that farebox ratios are correlated with ridership.
II2II
7h ago
1 reply
Sure, yet it also established a double standard. In my neck of the woods, most busses operate on municipal roads. Municipal roads are funded by municipal taxes, and the municipality does not have the right to charge fuel taxes. The revenue that they collect from drivers is from parking and parking permits in a tiny fraction of the city, as well as property taxes on the low value land used for parking lots. City council would face a bloodbath if they tried to increase revenues for road maintenance directly from road users. Never mind asking those users cover the cost of appropriating land and new road construction, which is being driven by the excessive use of vehicles that are occupied by one or two people. Yet transit users are typically expected to fund about half of transit operations. If they're lucky, the provincial or federal government will throw some money their way for new busses.
rootusrootus
6h ago
1 reply
[delayed]
wat10000
5h ago
1 reply
People who never use public transit still benefit from its existence too.
edm0nd
3h ago
same for libraries and home owners paying their millage taxes
kiba
6h ago
3 replies
It's self funding in places like Japan and Hong Kong, but these places also engage in value capture. Train services in these places are basically real estate companies with trains attached to them. They diversified by making train stations shopping malls.

In any case, cities can engage in value capture for public transportation. Just direct some of the property taxes collected directed to public transit. Even better would be some sort of LVT, ideally but not necessary 100% of the economic rent from land.

In any case, public transit should also engage in value capture on their own property. If they own a train station, they should consider building on top or adjacent to it spaces that they can then rent out to tenants. It's not only efficient but also serve the public and the local economy and making public transit more economical to run due to higher ridership.

nine_k
6h ago
1 reply
NYC also has subway statios with intense commerce, e.g. the Columbus Circle, or some bits around Herald Square. As a regular user, I find this convenient.

Almost every smaller station shows ads on walls, too, and every train carriers ads inside.

I don't see why the subway specifically could not be self-sufficient, or even a profit center. Sadly, this is not so, because of very large expenses, not because of low revenue.

smelendez
5h ago
1 reply
Brick and mortar shopping really seems to be struggling in the US since covid, though. It’s possible some transit systems could add malls above some of their stations, but a lot of cities still have persistently high retail vacancies, and even suburban malls aren’t what they were a few decades ago.

And urban malls and chain stores are frankly often depressing — awkward layouts translated imperfectly from suburban sprawl, along with obviously underpaid and burned out staff.

nine_k
5h ago
Selling food works well though. I won't mind grabbing some bagels right past the turnstiles, especially if it means not standing by a food truck outside when it's cold and drizzling.
Spooky23
5h ago
1 reply
[delayed]
EE84M3i
5h ago
What do you mean by employer subsidy here? Are you referring to the system where employers reimburse the costs of transit fees for commutes?

Many companies in Tokyo prevent their employees from commuting by car (legally commute is covered by workers comp insurance, and many companies do not elect the more expensive car coverage option) - so even in the absence of workers paying for the commute, public transit (or bike/walk) would be the only realistic option.

ericmay
6h ago
> They diversified by making train stations shopping malls.

Like airports in America. We should pursue a similar path for our rail stations and, frankly, ensure they are heading toward locations that are walkable and connected.

HPsquared
6h ago
1 reply
If more people use it, the operating cost will increase. So it'll be a bit more than 20%.
PaulHoule
5h ago
1 reply
… or service quality deteriorates. Political support for free buses you can’t actually ride collapses.
wat10000
5h ago
I’m getting a real feeling of “nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded.”
mixmastamyk
7h ago
2 replies
I’ve lived in civilized places, but uncivilized is probably more common: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-03-14/horror-t...
noduerme
6h ago
Here in Portland, riders can get high just by licking the windows.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/health/trimet-max-fentanyl-...

runako
5h ago
It's shockingly easy to scare some people away from public transit. Same city, private transport:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2025-08-13/carjacki...

Personally, I would rather be on a bus with someone high on drugs than be carjacked at gunpoint.

Aurornis
6h ago
1 reply
> I also think that those criticizing free fares are disingenuous. None of those cities had problems with (insert stereotypical undesirable group) using public transit.

I’ve lived in two cities with free fare zones: Subsections of public transport where no fares are collected, but if you want to go outside of the zone you need to buy a ticket.

The free fare zones were far more likely to have people causing problems. It’s not just “undesirable groups”. It’s people stealing your stuff if you aren’t paying attention, stalking women, creating messes, or just harassing people who want to be left alone.

Then you’d leave the free fare zone and see almost none of that. It was night and day different.

I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss anyone concerned about this. Unless you have sufficient enforcement to go along with it and the enforcers are empowered to deal with people who are causing problems, having free fares can be a real problem.

komali2
6h ago
1 reply
> It’s not just “undesirable groups”. It’s people stealing your stuff if you aren’t paying attention, stalking women, creating messes, or just harassing people who want to be left alone.

This seems to be a symptom, not a cause. The free zone, let me guess, more densely populated, city center area, and the not free zone, a bit less urban? Smells like income disparity zoning.

I mean if you think about, doesn't it seem a bit off to suggest that the prevalence of crime would be affected by whether a bus is free or not? My instinct is to get further into why there's crime happening at all, on or off bus. Why does it happen there, and not e.g. here in Taipei? Or other places with tons of public transit going on and very low crime, like Japan? The PRC?

Aurornis
1h ago
> This seems to be a symptom, not a cause. The free zone, let me guess, more densely populated, city center area, and the not free zone, a bit less urban?

The free fare zone was only included a subset of the city and only applied to certain modes of transportation.

> Smells like income disparity zoning.

Not really. I don’t see why it’s hard to believe that areas with no enforcement are a draw for people who want to e.g. ride a warm train than the areas with enforcement.

> I mean if you think about, doesn't it seem a bit off to suggest that the prevalence of crime would be affected by whether a bus is free or not?

No? It’s not just crime, it’s harassment, antisocial behavior, and other things that are not strictly crimes but you don’t want to be around. A lot of crimes are crimes of opportunity where someone strikes because they’re in the same place as you and see an opening. The more time they’re in the place, the more opportunities for those crimes.

dwd
6h ago
1 reply
When you have the electronic ticketing system already in place like Brisbane it makes sense to use it to monitor usage, so you can precisely see each journey, and better plan scheduling and expansion. For example, you would be able to see how many people pass through the two CBD stations crossing the North/South divide in the network. The new Cross River Rail expansion for example will be the first line that doesn't pass through Central.
protocolture
3h ago
Bit of a bugbear of mine, but the cross river rail project is mostly a stopgap. Brisbane really needed standard gauge and double decker trains before it became so built up. We are already at trains per minute capacity for some of the inner city bridges, and duplication in the inner city is highly destructive. If we could increase the capacity of the vehicles themselves we would be way better off. But the cheap/compromise position is to just bypass the problem entirely.

Whats worse is that, theres a certain perspective, one of declining CBD use, where cross river rail makes a mountain of sense. But in that case we should be bypassing the CBD with a lot of room for expansion, ie, 8 lines worth of track. But this isnt being done either.

>When you have the electronic ticketing system already in place like Brisbane it makes sense to use it to monitor usage

This and being able to continue charging fines is why it was left in place 100%

protocolture
3h ago
>The real benefits come from eliminating fares.

IIRC the 50 cent fares allow them to still charge ridiculous fines for fare evasion, keeping the Queensland Rail rentacops in business.

Most non metro stations only have tap on pillars and no fare gates anyway, and I think the inner city fare gates that still exist are on the list for removal.

The 50 cents also allowed them to track the changing usage profile and justify it by the explosion of use. Its basically self reporting that you used the system, and the origin and destination of your trip. Otherwise they would need to install foot traffic counters at train and bus stations and still end up with incomplete data.

It wasnt just super popular, it was that the data showed such a dramatic uptick in usage, which carried over to numbers of cars removed from the roads etc.

Probably took 5 minutes out of my normal commute, and that's in reduced vehicle traffic, I don't use the system at all except to take my kiddo to the museum on weekends. Benefits tracked to all punters results in an absolutely untouchable policy change.

JKCalhoun
5h ago
1 reply
Kansas City added a single light rail line through downtown and made it, initially, free.

It has been so wildly popular, firing up restaurants, clubs in downtown that the business owners begged KC to keep it free.

Still free and I believe they are extending it.

Mistletoe
5h ago
1 reply
All I see in this thread are people saying it won't work and then people giving examples of it actually working quite well. The scientific method is telling us something here...
bluGill
4h ago
it could work much better.
dwd
6h ago
I think the cost saving will be realised by not having to expand the road network as quickly if they convince people to use public transport. The cost of land acquisition/resumption along with the improbability of widening some central bottlenecks like Coronation Drive, the SE Arterial and the hell-hole that is Hale Street.

Personally, the $1 commute from the Sunshine Coast has been very good. I occasionally drive in but the Bruce Hwy has been a constant process of widening each section as they barely keep up with the traffic increases.

I think what you will see is a lot more people moving out to residential areas north of Brisbane seeking cheaper housing as they can take advantage of the almost free travel. Especially if they eventually build the Rail/Light Rail through South Caloundra to Maroochydore.

touwer
8h ago
1 reply
Paris, Amsterdam, Kopenhagen, Utrecht did it with bikes https://www.ethicalmarkets.com/paris-air-pollution-is-down-5...
mlok
6h ago
I just love cycling in Paris (apart from Winter...)

Both bicycles & free transports would be even better !

Animats
8h ago
9 replies
Do they clear out each bus at some end point of the route, so homeless people can't live on the bus?
idle_zealot
8h ago
6 replies
Are you having fun concern trolling about your made-up problem?
PeterHolzwarth
8h ago
3 replies
Do daily commutes by bus in a major west coast city. You'll quickly find this is no made up problem.
defrost
8h ago
1 reply
Particular to the US in many ways.

Not an issue for cheap / free public transport in many other countries mentioned.

Perhaps the manner in which the US deals with the distribution of income and basic human needs could use a few tweaks.

baggy_trough
8h ago
Alternately, the US is simply much more tolerant of dysfunction and antisocial behavior.
shkkmo
8h ago
1 reply
Homeless already often get access to free or cheap passes, often that allow unlimited rides.

Insisting that we charge everyone a bus fare because we think otherwise it might make it eaier to homeless people to use the bus is not only uninformed, but also heartless.

If you have problems with homeless people on buses, then figure out why those people aren't in a better shelter and solve that problem.

PaulHoule
8h ago
1 reply
It’s not easy to shelter people.

In Ithaca we recently built this place

https://mastodon.social/@UP8/115398619308992584

which is all low income housing on top of a conference center with maybe 1/4 of the units for people who had been unhoused. I think most of the people there are not criminally minded and keep to themselves but there are a few people there who are starting fires, dealing drugs, and causing damage. (Note a few windows in that image are busted out) Many homeless people have dogs that are important to them and wouldn’t be housed if they couldn’t bring their dogs, but… last year they had an outbreak of parovirus because dogs were having puppies and the puppies weren’t getting shots. A friend of mine got bit by a dog across the street from that place and thought it belonged to someone who lived there.

Some of it is people with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder can be almost impossible to live with if they aren’t getting treatment and I’m worried that deinstitutionalization will have a even more profoundly negative legacy seen 50 years from now than it already does. Not least, a 20 year old today spent many years of their life in a classroom where a ‘special’ kid sucked all the air out of the room and will probably be highly receptive to the notion that if we ‘get rid’ of 5% of people we can live in a utopia. If being in public means being in a space dominated by someone screaming at the demons they hallucinated then people will move to the suburbs instead of the downtown, they will not support public transit, they will order a private taxi for their burrito instead of eating out. They’ll retreat to Facebook.

gsf_emergency_6
6h ago
1 reply
Alternate institutions that turn the 5% into productive members would probably get Lasch's stamp of approval
gsf_emergency_6
4h ago
Good candidates for such alt institutions already exist; "just" need to test their policies on an expanded student body. Bonus, some consider these "conservative":

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45598371

burkaman
8h ago
It must not have anything to do with free fares, then, so it seems like an irrelevant thing to bring up here. There are no major west coast cities with free buses.
themafia
8h ago
1 reply
There's nothing "made up" about it. It actually happens. There are areas of this country with endemic homelessness and absolutely no strategy to address it. So, you get the obvious:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVKE2pqUjIA

throwaway173738
8h ago
2 replies
Yeah but what are the actual problems? It shouldn’t be a crime to not have a house. We should probably focus on actual problems like peeing or being intoxicated on the bus which are the actual harms.
trollbridge
6h ago
1 reply
Whilst it's not a crime not to have a house, providing housing via free buses is a very poor way to address people who don't have houses, and it has an unfortunate side effect of pushing people who would otherwise use public transportation away from using it.
the_snooze
6h ago
You see this in public libraries in major cities. They're open to everyone, so they become shelters of last resort for homeless folks. The large presence of homeless people discourages the public at-large from using the library as a library. That in turn weakens the political will to continue funding libraries.
themafia
8h ago
Falling asleep on a bus is a great way to get victimized. The homeless are most likely to be victimized by other homeless. It almost never gets reported to the police.

It's not a shelter and it's not meant to be converted into one. To me it's an indication of an overworked and failing system that leaves people in bad situations because it has nowhere else for them to go.

Sure, you could argue that because there's currently no obvious major problems, that you could just leave it as is and be entirely unconcerned with it, or even go so far as to suggest that anyone who does want to fix it is doing so in bad faith. I think that's cruel and lazy.

The actual problem? These people need _real_ shelter.

baggy_trough
8h ago
Do you live in the real world or a utopian fantasy of your own making?
swatcoder
8h ago
[delayed]
LosingFaith1
8h ago
What do you mean made-up problem? This is an extremely common problem in many areas. Sketchy characters will definitely stay on the bus and create unsafe environments for the bus driver and the customer unless there are systems in place.
edm0nd
8h ago
I dont think you have ever regularly rode a public bus before.

that is exactly what homeless people be doing.

smelendez
8h ago
2 replies
Having a fare wouldn’t affect this much. It’s not too hard to get someone to spot you a couple of bucks at a bus stop.

Honestly it’s not that big a deal if someone sleeps on the bus. Homeless, drunk, tired from work, whatever.

jerlam
8h ago
Bus drivers don't seem too excited to enforce the fare either. They're not exactly law enforcement; it might be dangerous and it would delay everyone else on the bus.
mixmastamyk
8h ago
Everyone, but especially the working poor deserve a civilized way to get to work. Without screaming, smelly, sleeping, druggies taking up the seats.
pixl97
8h ago
1 reply
When I was younger and lived near Iowa City homelessness was nearly unseen. Not sure what it's like these days.
nozzlegear
4h ago
I don't live in Iowa City but do live in Iowa; the (visible) homelessness population is still nearly zero. I have to imagine that anyone who finds themselves homeless for long enough will eventually find a way to leave the state for warmer climes.
Zigurd
8h ago
1 reply
Last time I visited New York I was lucky to have a companion who knew all the ways to get around including the free bus lines. The people using these buses were no different from those using buses and other public transportation that charged fares.

Ipso facto, eliminating fare collection eliminates crime. Fare evasion as a crime amounts to make-work for cops. Not all value, and often least of all value in public goods, is derived from charging at the point of use.

RhysU
7h ago
Right! It's just easier to soak everyone driving into Manhattan. So much cheaper too collect from the convenient rather than the consumer.
deoxykev
7h ago
1 reply
I live there in that city. There are hardly any homeless at all here. Not like other cities at least. I could see it being a major problem in other places.
trollbridge
6h ago
3 replies
It does seem that it should be possible to offer "free buses" without having to also offer "free hotels inside of the free buses". As an example, I can go to a local store and experience free parking or go to my nearby town and park for free downtown. I can't, however, park and sleep overnight in my car in that shopping centre or in that town.

Why can't buses be regulated the same way?

righthand
6h ago
2 replies
They are, you’re making all this up. Do you have proof some municipality has been over taken by the homeless population that the cops or bus drivers can’t remove them from their buses (they’re too strong and well organized obviously). So they just give the buses to the homeless people?

I mean what on earth are you talking about. Go spread hate elsewhere.

dang
6h ago
1 reply
Can you please not post in the flamewar style here, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are?

It's always possible to make your substantive points thoughtfully, so please do that instead.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

righthand
1h ago
1 reply
I can stop posting in flamewar style but I feel:

> also offer "free hotels inside of the free buses".

Is the inciting flamewar style spark. There is nothing in the article about this specific part. Is it not bad faith argument to insist that all buses every where are used as hotels just because of a few bad experiences? The way the commenter discusses all homeless as either dangerous, addicted drugs, smelly, etc. is incredibly flamewar intending to push stigma on the topic.

If the people who are pushing unfound truths can’t be called out for it, then I guess the FUD spreaders win. The community doesn’t need me. Please scramble this username to something random. I’m out.

dang
1h ago
I hear you that there was a provocation in that bit.
deadbolt
6h ago
2 replies
For what it's worth, I think you and trollbridge are actually in agreement. Re-read their comment, to me it doesn't imply what you think it does.
righthand
1h ago
We are not. I don’t believe homeless people are “using the bus as a hotel” because I actually ride buses unlike the commenter who is afraid and probably has never volunteered or talked to someone less fortunate in their community in their life.

Their username is literally trollbridge! I mean come on.

trollbridge
6h ago
I would be in favour of (for example) someone who is attempting to “reside” on a bus being referred to a social worker that then sees to it the person ends up referred to an appropriate shelter.
PaulHoule
4h ago
Who’s supposed to enforce it? Is the driver supposed to pull over and wake up a sleeping person who has a small but real chance of stabbing them? Any situation where they call the police could be quite a hassle for the other passengers.
Spooky23
5h ago
[delayed]
righthand
6h ago
1 reply
Homeless people aren’t living in the bus. Cool your stigmas. It’s weird your biggest concern is the people who need the most help. Life must be pretty good for you to attack those in need.
bethekidyouwant
6h ago
3 replies
Be honest, do you take the bus to work ?
righthand
1h ago
Absolutely! I take the bus 5 days a week in Brooklyn. The only way to get across the southern part of the borough.
Hnrobert42
5h ago
I did for a year in DC. There were some folks who were struggling - talking to themselves, intoxicated, fragrant. I sort of liked it. Made me feel alive.
bdangubic
6h ago
how is this relevant? I agree with the comment and have not once in my life taken a bus other than school bus
komali2
6h ago
2 replies
Whenever I hear about this criticism of free public transit I always wonder why the question isn't "how do we keep homeless people from living on our busses" and is instead "why don't these homeless people have some place to live that isn't a bus?"
cheema33
6h ago
> I always wonder why the question isn't "how do we keep homeless people from living on our busses"

Similar questions get asked often enough. The problem is that there aren't any easy answers or solutions. Cities have tried different things but none that appear to work for medium to large sized cities.

If you see a city employ a workable solution that can used as a model and be deployed everywhere, that would be awesome.

nobody9999
2h ago
[delayed]
ThrowMeAway1618
2h ago
1 reply
>Do they clear out each bus at some end point of the route, so homeless people can't live on the bus?

I don't think "can" or can't" live is the right question.

Those filthy homeless folks are homeless because they're lazy, defective, worthless and less than human.

The correct question is "should" or "shouldn't" live. Obviously, the answer is "shouldn't."

Just do the cost/benefit analysis! USD$0.010/bullet (one time cost) vs. USD$35,000/annum to keep these "undesirables" incarcerated. The solution seems pretty obvious, no?

westpfelia
19m ago
So you advocate for executing all homeless? Thats more then 800,000 people.. What about homeless adjacent to? If you dont earn more then the median income what we get to enter you into some sort of hunger games elimination match?

Go touch grass you psycho.

wahern
8h ago
Iowa City is in Johnson County. A 2024 point-in-time count of the chronic homeless population--the highly visible population noticeably encountered in public spaces--in Johnson and Washington Counties combined is less than 200 people. See https://opportunityiowa.gov/media/5390/download?inline#page=... There are also only 13 bus routes, and it's a college town with a significant percentage of price-sensitive student ridership that either wouldn't qualify or wouldn't bother applying for fare subsidies (as are common in major metro regions). The context is incomparable to major coastal cities.

We know free transit works in many cases. There are plenty of examples. But it's rare to compare and contrast the contexts. (But, see, e.g., this 2012 National Academy of Sciences report: https://cvtdbus.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/2012-07-TCRP-...) It's far easier to promote free transit than it is to address the underlying issues, like regulatory barriers to housing production, that might cause free transit to fail long-term.

djohnston
8h ago
4 replies
This works really well if you don't have a sizeable drug / crime problem in your community. I can't imagine it's going to work in American cities where women are already being lit on fire and stabbed to death by their fellow commuters. But Iowa City? Sure why not.
throwaway5465
8h ago
1 reply
Please stop watching, andd being a pawn of, paid and party propoganda on tiktok et al.
djohnston
8h ago
3 replies
Watching Iryna Zarutska get stabbed in the neck and a bunch of people do fuck-all to help her wasn't anyone's propaganda. Though it was radicalising.
throwaway173738
8h ago
1 reply
We did this in the seventies too. I get that it’s infuriating but I don’t get how the solution is to charge $3.00. I’ve seen guys on street corners get more in one handout.
djohnston
8h ago
1 reply
It's all probability distributions. A bus driver will usually stop the bus and refuse to move if someone refuses to pay the fair. People who skip fairs are more likely to commit other crimes. If you put these together, you improve the probability that a subhuman doesn't get to commit acts of violence on public transit.
naikrovek
7h ago
s/fair/fare/g;
undeveloper
7h ago
2 replies
Actually, it was, given that many right wingers who benefit from a sense of unease from existing in society boosted the video to make it seem like more than an a random act of crime, done by a schizophrenic man who wasn't treated properly.

> [The suspect's] mother told ABC News that [the suspect] was diagnosed with schizophrenia [...] and displayed violent behavior at home. His mother said that she had sought involuntary commitment, but that it was denied.

> Elon Musk criticized judges and district attorneys for allowing "criminals to roam free".

> U.S. President Donald Trump called the attacker a "madman" and "lunatic", and said that "when you have horrible killings, you have to take horrible actions. And the actions that we take are nothing", before blaming local officials in places like Chicago for failing to stop crime and denounced cashless bail.

> On the same day, the White House released a statement criticizing "North Carolina's Democrat politicians, prosecutors, and judges" for "prioritizing woke agendas that fail to protect their citizens".

> On September 9, the White House released a video in which Trump said that Zarutska was "slaughtered by a deranged monster".

> On September 24, U.S. Vice President JD Vance discussed the killing in a visit to Concord, North Carolina, blaming it on "soft-on-crime policies" and stating he was "open" to deploying the North Carolina National Guard to Charlotte if requested by Governor Stein and Mayor Lyles.

> The U.S. House Committee on the Judiciary held a field hearing in Charlotte on September 29 on safety in public transit systems and the treatment of repeat offenders.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Iryna_Zarutska#Reac...

djohnston
5h ago
You misunderstand me. The violence from a deranged lunatic against that poor girl was tragic but not particularly surprising. The reaction of everyone sitting around her - to do nothing and let her bleed out on the floor next to them while they scrolled on their fucking phones - that's what was radicalising.

It took no boosting or Trump ramblings to see that they didn't give a shit because she was some white girl.

djohnston
5h ago
No, no, you're not getting it. People boosted it, OK yeah it was pretty heinous and horrifying and it was obviously going to get clicks so opportunists gonna opportune. But that footage is radicalising in a vacuum. It doesn't need any boosting to land its message.
trollbridge
6h ago
The woman who got gasoline poured on her and lit on fire in Chicago last week isn't helping either. It doesn't make people like my wife, for example, excited about the idea of going and riding public transportation alone.
tclancy
8h ago
1 reply
Which ones are those?
djohnston
8h ago
2 replies
You know which ones :)
naikrovek
7h ago
2 replies
> You know which ones :)

This is straight up racism right here. Not even trying to hide it.

djohnston
6h ago
1 reply
Interesting. I would have thought stabbing someone in the neck and proclaiming 'I GOT that white girl" would be racist. But no, no, you're right. Pointing out that leftist DAs in these cities are endangering the public - that's the real racism.
naikrovek
5h ago
1 reply
> Next time I hope it's someone you love.

See, that’s something I would never say to anyone.

A one-time event of a black person killing a white person is not enough for me to hate black people. For you it seems to be little more than the reason you care to type out.

You are the problem here. Not anyone that’s black. People like you are who I’m afraid of. And I’m confident you’re the most violent demographic in the US.

djohnston
4h ago
yawn - You keep exclaiming I have some racial hatred but I really don't. You know who else hates these career criminals? Black people just trying to get on with their lives! They're the ones that suffer the most, statistically speaking.

It's pathetic white leftist Wojaks who expose everyone to these threats through their crime-tolerant political ideologies. You will never change until you understand the consequences first hand.

djohnston
7h ago
What on Earth are you talking about?
TrukeTime
7h ago
1 reply
Why are white nationalists like you always Mexcrements from the southern border?
djohnston
7h ago
1 reply
Saying that there are cities with endemic violence and anti-social behavior tolerated by left-leaning DAs, which inevitably leads to someone with dozens of priors committing heinous acts of violence, now qualifies as white nationalism? For real???
defrost
7h ago
2 replies
There are alternatives to dealing with violence and anti-social behavior aside from the boot of quasi-military police on those that struggle.

Some people and places consistently appeal to greater and greater draconian use of force, other places and people resort first to social policy to take tempretures down and to not regard schizophrenics as "subhumans".

trollbridge
6h ago
I have a close relative who is a schizophrenic. I also work with one.

Neither of them have been arrested 72 times nor convicted 15 times. Neither of them have set a random woman on a train on fire, either.

I consider someone who does that subhuman, yeah. Schizophrenics can and do experience empathy and go out of their way not to hurt others.

djohnston
7h ago
> regard schizophrenics as "subhumans".

I hope you aren't insinuating this is my position? That man is a subhuman. He is lesser than a rat. I wish him nothing but unending torment and fear for many years to come. In no way is my contempt for him universally applicable to all schizophrenics. I judge the man by his actions not his condition.

bsenftner
8h ago
1 reply
Oh, they've got drugs there, don't worry about that...
djohnston
8h ago
1 reply
Yeah there's a difference between psychotic dread-heads with knives and college kids on a shroom trip.
tclancy
7h ago
1 reply
Skin color?
djohnston
6h ago
You know black people go to college, too, right? Yikes - liberals really do embrace the racism of low expectations. Do better.
gdulli
8h ago
2 replies
You can tell who actually lives in cities because they're the ones who see through this and go about their lives unafraid of city violence fanfic.
djohnston
8h ago
1 reply
Sure thing buddy

- Sent from my corn field

canyp
6h ago
Bring some corn when you come and visit.
shitlord
7h ago
2 replies
There’s a big difference between someone who happens to live in a city and someone who is reliant on public transit.
gdulli
7h ago
1 reply
There's also a big difference between anecdotes/instances of crime and a statistical reason to live in fear.
shitlord
7h ago
1 reply
Sure, but fear has little basis in statistics. People still worry about plane crashes and instead opt to drive.
gdulli
4h ago
Right, that's why it's unfortunately so easy to commit the evil of manipulating people by nurturing their fear.
nobody9999
1h ago
[delayed]
yegle
8h ago
3 replies
I live in the SF Bay Area. For a family weekend day trip to SF, taking BART costs $50+, and we always elect to just drive.

I wonder how much the traffic would improve in/out of SF if BART is cheaper.

bombcar
7h ago
1 reply
So many public transit options just absolutely fall about if you have more than the standard 1.5 kids.

It adds up super fast; even “kids ride free with parent” would go a long way.

ericmay
6h ago
3 replies
Perhaps, but with more transit options that means fewer people on the road which is good for those who have 2+ children to lug around.

On a side note we should drop the public bit of this because it implies a bus is “publicly funded” but highways aren’t. Both are subsidized by the taxpayer.

eru
5h ago
2 replies
> On a side note we should drop the public bit of this because it implies a bus is “publicly funded” but highways aren’t. Both are subsidized by the taxpayer.

Arguably, neither of them should be. Give poor people money, instead of giving free highway access (and bus transit) to rich and poor alike. Rich people don't need our help, and poor people would rather have the money to spend as they wish instead of other people deciding for them what alms they should consume.

Individual cars have worse externalities than busses, so that means we should tax them more than busses. Though I suspect once drivers of cars and busses are paying non-subsidised prices for road access and fuel, busses will naturally look better in comparison, no extra tax differential needed.

PaulHoule
5h ago
1 reply
Highway is paid for in vehicle registration and gas taxes.
chii
2h ago
1 reply
but not completely - and this is only even talking about maintenance. The initial investment is absolutely not "paid for", because the economic returns from them are privatized, and the tax collection of those private benefits aren't really up to par imho. If it was a private business who did this road/highway investment, they'd be losing money, as an example.
eru
55m ago
Roads are also not public goods in the economic sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good

> In economics, a public good (also referred to as a social good or collective good)[1] is a commodity, product or service that is both non-excludable and non-rivalrous [...]

That's because roads are rather excludable (see toll roads), and if you've ever been in a traffic jam, you'll notice that road use is rivalrous.

bluGill
4h ago
1 reply
The poor I want to help the most are not mentally able to handle money. I know someone who gave money to 'nigerain prince' scams several times - a nice guy but he has no idea scams exist even after that.
eru
57m ago
Sure. That's a decent argument for paternalism for some people.

It's independent of the argument against giving well-off people free stuff.

subroutine
4h ago
1 reply
[delayed]
defrost
4h ago
1 reply
Who Pays for Roads?

  How the "Users Pay" Myth Gets in the Way of Solving America's Transportation Problems
~ https://frontiergroup.org/resources/who-pays-roads/

Road Taxes and Funding by State, 2025

  Most states fail to collect enough in user fees to fully provide for roadway spending. This necessitates transfers from general funds or other revenue sources that are unrelated to road use to pay for road construction and maintenance.

  Only three states—Delaware, Montana, and New Jersey—raise enough revenue to fully cover their highway spending. The remaining 47 states and the District of Columbia must make up the difference with tax revenues from other sources.

  The states that raise the lowest proportion of their highway funds from transportation-related sources are Alaska (19.4 percent) and North Dakota (35.1 percent), both states which rely heavily on revenue from severance taxes.
ericmay
4h ago
Thanks. Yea also not accounting for other social costs - obesity, teen deaths, first responders and police spending time rescuing people who are maimed in car crashes.

There are benefits too and all, just saying we don’t really have a full cost readily available for comparison because it’s hard to measure, never mind the literal dollars and cents that go into funding.

bombcar
6h ago
It distinguishes it from private transit like Uber and taxis and even shared ride vans.
outside1234
6h ago
1 reply
We just need to subsidize public transport like we subsidize roads.
rootusrootus
6h ago
4 replies
[delayed]
Aurornis
5h ago
2 replies
Very much so. When I was younger I assumed fares were for the cost of the public transport, but after following some local budgeting discussions I was stunned by how little the fares covered operating costs.

Small amounts of cost sharing are a useful technique for incentivizing people to make wise decisions in general, so there’s some value in having token small fares. It’s the same difference that shows up when you list something for $10 in your local classifieds as opposed to listing it as FREE. Most people who use classifieds learn early on that listing things for free is just asking for people to waste your time, but listing for any price at all seems to make people care a little more and put some thought into their decisions. I’ve often given things away for free after listing them for small amounts in classifieds because it filters for people who are less likely to waste your time.

loeg
5h ago
1 reply
Fares income isn't insubstantial -- just as an example I'm familiar with, King County Metro (Seattle area) was ~33% funded by fares before Covid (which destroyed both ridership and percent non-stealing riders). It is material; not "token."
Aurornis
1h ago
1 reply
What was funded? You mean operating costs? That’s only part of what it costs to build the lines and do all of the construction, among other things.
squigz
15m ago
Isn't operating costs what's being discussed here?
HWR_14
4h ago
What is the behavior you are trying to filter out?
raybb
5h ago
1 reply
Not nearly as much as cars and highways are subsidized.

Strong Towns talks quite a bit about how especially suburban roads are not financially sustainable.

bluGill
4h ago
strong towns is not honest about it though. Urban areas have been maintaining roads for a long time. They seem to think that if you ammortize a road over 20 year you have to replace it in year 21 but most roads are good for 40+ years
sien
5h ago
1 reply
Yes.

US cars get 1 cent per passenger mile.

US Transit gets $2.39 per passenger mile.

https://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=22027

Also look up the Farebox Recovery Ratio.

There are values for many US cities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio#United_...

jeromegv
5h ago
2 replies
Now add environmental cost.
sien
3h ago
"While private passenger vehicles contribute 90% of the mileage in the U.S. transportation sector, their emissions share is only 58%. The remaining emissions come from public transit (27%) and other modes including airplanes (13%)."

From :

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01660...

nozzlegear
4h ago
How do you measure it?
loeg
5h ago
Yes, but with fewer dollars than roads.
raybb
7h ago
If you have any transfers as part of that to muni or other services you'll be happy to know that they'll be much cheaper/free starting in December.

https://clipper2.hikingbytransit.com/

bookofjoe
9h ago
https://archive.ph/lEmzI
wat10000
8h ago
Whenever this is discussed where I live, drivers come out of the woodwork to oppose it. And of course they also complain endlessly about traffic. It amuses me to no end.
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ID: 46027833Type: storyLast synced: 11/23/2025, 10:08:08 PM

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