Back to Home11/18/2025, 6:13:30 PM

I am stepping down as the CEO of Mastodon

581 points
426 comments

Mood

thoughtful

Sentiment

mixed

Category

tech

Key topics

Mastodon

decentralized social media

open-source

leadership transition

Debate intensity60/100

The CEO of Mastodon is stepping down after 10 years, transferring ownership to a non-profit, and sparking discussion about the project's future, decentralization, and the challenges of leading a social media platform.

Snapshot generated from the HN discussion

Discussion Activity

Very active discussion

First comment

2h

Peak period

69

Hour 4

Avg / period

16

Comment distribution160 data points

Based on 160 loaded comments

Key moments

  1. 01Story posted

    11/18/2025, 6:13:30 PM

    1d ago

    Step 01
  2. 02First comment

    11/18/2025, 8:43:13 PM

    2h after posting

    Step 02
  3. 03Peak activity

    69 comments in Hour 4

    Hottest window of the conversation

    Step 03
  4. 04Latest activity

    11/19/2025, 11:34:37 AM

    7h ago

    Step 04

Generating AI Summary...

Analyzing up to 500 comments to identify key contributors and discussion patterns

Discussion (426 comments)
Showing 160 comments of 426
JadoJodo
22h ago
4 replies
What happened last summer? (I couldn't find anything on it)
shakna
21h ago
1 reply
A thread with a user that devolved into name calling.

Or the Twitter fight where he encouraged people to DOS the rival.

Or the account takeover CVE and repercussions.

bn-l
18h ago
Do you mean dox?
gargron
17h ago
2 replies
It did not happen in public, and is not related to any public events.
Maken
7h ago
Which controversial topic did you fail/refuse to crack down on the fediverse?
AmbroseBierce
10h ago
@dang if possible please stick this reply to the top, @gargron is the author himself (the CEO stepping down)
Conscat
21h ago
I know we must have some terminally online fediverse users here. One of them must have an idea what he is alluding to.
jeromegv
20h ago
I'm not entirely sure, I wonder if that is related to the "fight" between fans of ActivityPub and fans of Bluesky AtProto where he was personally involved.

Because both protocols can actually interface together, we had people on both side of the 2 networks talking to each other in the same thread (which is truly impressive when you think about it)

https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/115074431325055303

m-hodges
22h ago
1 reply
Godspeed, John Mastodon
memorydial
21h ago
3 replies
Haha, you might have slexdyia.
deathanatos
21h ago
4 replies
I think it's more the keming of the domain portion of the HN title, especially combined with HN's rather small font size choice (it's a meager 8pt¹!) there, and that it just happens that the mis-kemed result ends up with "John Mastodon", and is thus not trivially noticeable as "wrong"…

(I read it the same way, too.)

(¹I personally have a browser override for HN's tiny font choice; I thought that 12pt was the universally agreed upon "base text" point size, and "10pt" was "small text", but HN's "normal" is 9pt.)

m-hodges
21h ago
1 reply
deathanatos
16h ago
TIL! (Though I'd also wager that originated from someone having to squint at more bad kerning.)
ajkjk
21h ago
1 reply
HN is simple enough that it scales well with browser zoom, and so (imo) is excusable for not following that 12pt standard.
mh-
20h ago
Agreed. I need a larger font on a lot of sites nowadays, but HN is probably the one that behaves best with simple browser zoom. I have it set to 125 or 150% depending how tired my eyes are..
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF
18h ago
1 reply
> keming

Kerning?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerning

Also, if that was the mistake, it's kinda funny given the likelihood it was caused by a kerning issue.

deathanatos
17h ago
An intentional "pun".

E.g., reddit.com/r/keming

shaky-carrousel
21h ago
Dyslexics of the world, untie!
layer8
22h ago
7 replies
He’s also receiving €1 million as a one-time compensation. Not quite enough to retire on that.
lapcat
22h ago
1 reply
Do you have a reference for this?
edm0nd
22h ago
1 reply
Still enough to have a good lil nest egg that generates okay-ish passive income if invested correctly.

@ 4% that's €40k/year

more than what most regular people have

kjkjadksj
21h ago
5 replies
Does he not have to pay taxes on that 1m euros in the eu?
cntlzw
21h ago
1 reply
Absolutely. That is either "Teileinkünfteverfahren" (60% of 1 Million EUR are taxed, 40% are tax-exempt) or "Abgeltungssteuer" (Government takes a 25% cut). Fun fact: there is no tax on winning the lottery in Germany!
batisteo
21h ago
1 reply
Loto is well-known (in France) as the poors' taxes
rmoriz
20h ago
Only if you lose (not win) :) (irrelevant side node: poker is treated as skill based game in Germany, hence you have to pay taxes on wins)
FuriouslyAdrift
21h ago
1 reply
I guess top rate in Germany is 45%
fhd2
21h ago
If you live in the west, 47.5% even. But that's income tax, whether that applies here depends on how it's structured.
vjerancrnjak
21h ago
1 reply
Some countries have 0 rate if sold after x years. Although many had it in the past, they’ve started eliminating it.
torginus
21h ago
And some countries have the opposite - they tax your invested gains as if you turned them to cash
zwnow
21h ago
You pretty much pay taxes on everything in the EU. In Germany there are ways you can reduce the total tax you have to pay and as far as I know you wont have to pay social security contributions on that. It'll still be 6 digit tax amount.
mk89
21h ago
Sure he does. He lives in Germany. They are gonna rip that 1 million apart.
naIak
22h ago
7 replies
Damn, where is Mastodon getting €1M from?

Also where do you get from that you can't retire with €1M. It seems very feasible as long as you keep a frugal lifestyle.

nrhrjrjrjtntbt
22h ago
2 replies
Why is retiring mentioned? Most jobs pay zero when you leave so 1M is cool.
layer8
22h ago
He was the founder and head of the company, so probably wouldn’t have had to step down if he didn’t want to.
bluGill
21h ago
Because that is the common thing someone will do when they get what looks like a large sum of money. It isn't the only option, but it is a common one.
BeetleB
22h ago
1 reply
Depends on your age and where you live. If you're single, no kids, and don't need healthcare, sure.

Where I live (not expensive like SV), they recommend $90K+ to "live comfortably".

A 1 bedroom apartment is $19K/year. Insurance rates vary widely, but premium + deductible - you may want to assume $10K/year. So you're already at $30K without eating, Internet, utility bills and transportation.

I'm sure one could live off of that 1M if fairly frugal, but it's not what most people want.

markdown
21h ago
1 reply
Healthcare is taken care of by his taxes.
mh-
20h ago
A quick google suggests more than a third of Germany pays for supplementary private health insurance (Zusatzversicherung) in addition to what their taxes take care of.
lrvick
21h ago
2 replies
€1M would not even cover the property tax to retire in the cheapest bay area home.
mminer237
21h ago
1 reply
Uh, that's one of the most expensive places to live in the world. That's kind of the opposite of frugal. It's very doable in most of the US, as that's almost double what most retired people have, let alone the rest of the world.
bluGill
21h ago
Retired people generally are a lot older and get income from things like Social Security. They also get medicare taking care of health insurance. Between those two you need a lot more money to retire before you turn 65 vs after.

Now I believe he is in Europe so different rules apply, but they have similar things there). I don't know the rules in his country (or even his country), some are more friendly than others, but still the money won't go as far when you retire before the system wants you to.

Barrin92
21h ago
thankfully nobody's forced to live in the Bay Area. With a million in the bank you could live off the interest in Portugal or an even cheaper city in Asia without touching the principal
bluGill
21h ago
4 replies
Generally charitable foundations figure that you can withdraw 3% per year from your savings and never run out. Remember you have to account for not only good years, but also really bad years, so even though you can average 10% over the long term in the stock market there will be decades that you are negative. There are also bond investments that are safer, but have worse return. And inflation is always eating into your savings so if they don't grow by that much every year (on average) eventually you will run out of money.

3% of a million is only 30k per year. A frugal person can live on that little - but it will be hard. You can make more than that working at McDonald's near me, and nobody would claim that is a living wage.

Now if you want to retire you don't need your nest egg to last forever, only until you die. You can thus withdraw a bit more than 3%, but I'm not sure how much. (and you may have other pension plans to work with). Still if you withdraw 100k/year from this million you will run out of money in less than 20 years (with 12 being realistic) 100k per year is not a great income for a programmer.

naIak
21h ago
1 reply
>You can make more than that working at McDonald's near me, and nobody would claim that is a living wage.

Hey, good for you. But 30k per year is a very good salary in countries such as Spain, where the median salary is just a bit over half that.

plorkyeran
19h ago
30k pre-tax, not post, so it's equal to the median salary.

I would count moving to a significantly poorer country that you have no connections to in order to get your cost of living down a "frugal" way to stretch out your retirement fund.

tzs
19h ago
1 reply
The hard part is housing and transportation. If you've managed to pay off your house before retiring and it and its major appliances are in good shape, and if you are someplace where you need a car you have that off too, and you can find a place where property taxes aren't too bad living on $30k/year (after taxes) is actually quite reasonable if you don't have expensive hobbies.

I'm in the Puget Sound area of Washington with a paid off house and until a few months ago a paid off car. My new car is financed for a few months while I wait for some CDs to mature which I will use to pay it off. In the following I'm going to treat it as paid off.

The expenses that arise every month (e.g. food/groceries, some insurance premiums, utilities, prescriptions and OTC health stuff) plus the expenses that are yearly or half-yearly (e.g. some insurance premiums, property taxes) converted to monthly comes to a little under $2000/month.

A new Mac every 5 years, an iPad every 5 years, an iPhone every 4, an Apple Watch every 4, and a new car every 10 works out to be equivalent to around $350/month.

That leaves $1800/year out of our $30k/year, which can cover the occasional need to repair or replace a major appliance.

I do have fairly low property taxes thanks to a pretty good senior discount that Washington provides, but Washington is also a high property tax state. If we pick a low property tax state there are a few were someone without a discount would be paying about $800/month more than I'm paying for a comparable house. In one of those states that would leave us $1000/year for the occasional appliance repair or replacement.

You may need to make sure your house is suitable for this. Mine has a well and septic system which can be expensive to fix if they break. That could require drawing down the principle. We'd probably want to pick a house on municipal water and sewage. Also pick one in a milder climate so that we aren't relying on some expensive high capacity heating and/or cooling system. That should keep heating/cooling repairs down.

We also should take another look at that 3% a year withdrawal. We don't need to never run out. We just need to not run out before we die.

We can bump our monthly withdraw up to $3000 and keep that up for around 60 years. With that we've got $7k/year for our maintenance/repairs/replacements.

Another thing we should probably look at is whether we've already done enough work or whatever else is required to qualify for our country's old age benefits someday. If we will be able to start collecting those when we are 65 for example, and we are getting our $1 million at 30, we can withdraw more now than if we have to have the $1 million get us all the way to death.

bluGill
17h ago
well and septic is cheaper than city services. However the city services are a small monthly cost while the well/septic is a big one every 20-30 years: budgeting is easier
veeti
19h ago
Shit Americans say...
jancsika
17h ago
> You can make more than that working at McDonald's near me, and nobody would claim that is a living wage.

Or he could scrimp and put four hard years towards making manager at McDonald's. If he gets it, then he can demand they match 44k a year (his passive income at that point) or he walks.

He could then try the same at Wendy's, and walk to retire on 64k a year.

Compound interest is one helluva drug!

layer8
22h ago
It’s not impossible to retire on that (assuming the stock market keeps going indefinitely), but you probably wouldn’t unless forced to, at his age. With €2-3M it would be less of a question.
jandrese
22h ago
Depends how old you are how much you already have saved. If you still have a mortgage payment it's probably not going to make it. If he fully owns a farm out in the woods somewhere where you don't have to buy health insurance it might be possible. Taxes are probably the biggest worry, inflation the next.
geerlingguy
22h ago
> We deeply appreciate the generosity of Jeff Atwood and the Atwood Family (EUR 2.2M), Biz Stone, AltStore (EUR 260k), GCC (EUR 65k), and Craig Newmark.

> We want to thank the generous individual donors that participated in our fundraising drive. We put individual donations entirely towards Mastodon’s operations (primarily, paying our full-time employees to improve Mastodon), which totalled EUR 337k over the past 12 months (September 2024 - September 2025).

From https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2025/11/the-future-is-ours-to-...

jasonjmcghee
21h ago
1 reply
It doesn't say he's retiring (afaik) - he might still have compensation
layer8
21h ago
Hence why I said it’s not enough to retire on it.
simonw
21h ago
1 reply
Here's more information on that: https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2025/11/the-future-is-ours-to-...

> For our team, a vital aspect of getting this restructuring right was making sure that Eugen was compensated fairly for Mastodon’s brand trademark, assets, and the 10 years he spent building Mastodon into what it is today (while taking less than a fair market salary). Based on replacement costs, Eugen’s time and effort, and the fair market value of the Mastodon brand, its associated properties, and the social network, we settled on a one-time compensation of EUR 1M.

layer8
21h ago
stevage
21h ago
1 reply
You're assuming zero savings to begin with, which is a weird assumption.
pcthrowaway
21h ago
His salary from Mastadon annual reports 2021-2023 were 28,800, then 36,000, then 60,000 euros annually (reports for 2024 and 2025 are not released yet), so unless he had side gigs or deals, I wouldn't expect he has a ton of savings at the moment. Glad he is getting a decent payout with his exit, though unfortunately a windfall like this in one year offers less take-home than if he was paid this over several years.

I really hope he's able to find success and better work-life balance in his future endeavours

jimbokun
22h ago
It is if you deliberately find a low cost of living area and control your costs.
lapcat
22h ago
2 replies
I think it's good for the future of Mastodon as a decentralized platform to not depend essentially on any one person. After all, the web itself no longer depends on Tim Berners-Lee. That doesn't diminish their accomplishments, which were never about king-making.
hinkley
22h ago
1 reply
Truthfully, the web never did depend entirely on Tim.

He made neither the browsers nor the servers that people used, and libwww was so full of bugs and memory leaks that it was heavily modified by those who did, if they used it at all.

The W3C was its own thing.

velcrovan
22h ago
Also kind of like John Gruber and Markdown.pl
jshen
22h ago
1 reply
It depends what the alternative is. A vacuum is worse for example.
lapcat
22h ago
2 replies
There's no power vacuum. There's now a Mastodon nonprofit organization with an executive director and leadership team.
thinkingtoilet
22h ago
2 replies
So worse... a committee.
lapcat
22h ago
1 reply
It's an open source project. What exactly are you expecting?

Keep in mind that every for-profit publicly-owned corporation has many shareholders, as well as a board of directors, which is, gasp, a committee!

jshen
21h ago
1 reply
yes, but they typically hire a singular CEO to drive a cohesive vision and strategy with the check that they can fire the CEO at anytime.
lapcat
20h ago
1 reply
Yes, and Mastodon has an executive director.
jshen
19h ago
Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure that's what that role was intended to do.
dylan604
21h ago
A committee from the beginning would definitely prevent something from really ever starting. Could you imagine Linus working under a committee to get Linux running?

At some point, you do have people that need to step back. If you turn it over to another single person, they could pivot and "ruin" the product. By turning it over to a committee, hopefully, any ruinous ideas get overruled. At least in theory

jshen
21h ago
Right, and it's TBD if that will turn out to be more or less effective. I'm hopeful, but more voices isn't always better.
ChrisArchitect
22h ago
1 reply
Title is: My next chapter with Mastodon
netsharc
22h ago
Ah, CEO can't help but use corporate-speech.

How to break up your girlfriend: "I've been thinking about the future... you're not in it.".

xupybd
22h ago
4 replies
"The fediverse is an island within an increasingly dystopian capitalist hellscape."

This seems like an extreme view to me. It's not so bad

polynomial
22h ago
6 replies
It also glosses over or ignores the fact that Discord is low key crushing it, and is hardly a "capitalist hellscape"
SunshineTheCat
22h ago
4 replies
I know this is kinda a grampa thing to say, but can you imagine timemachining a farmer from 100 years ago to today's "capitalist hellscape" and ordering him a burger on Uber Eats...
quinnjh
21h ago
1 reply
unfortunately he can only pay you back in 1925 dollars so youll have to take the dime as down payment and get the farmer enrolled in a BNPL
kragen
21h ago
The 01925 dime is worth about US$3 as bullion (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45907742) even without getting into collectors' value, so a couple of dimes or a quarter will pay for a hamburger. You may just have to stop by a jeweler's shop first.
phyzome
20h ago
And he'd ask why the hell you're paying for a taxi for your burger.
lisdexan
18h ago
I think a rural farmer from 1925 can understand "I pay an immigrant to deliver me hot food via an exploitative middleman", if he's Indian maybe his cousin that went to the city is a dabbawalla.

Like you can do your hypothetical right now with a plane ticket and a 4x4 trip to the Colombian Andes. The peasant might call you a softie, but he's not gonna become Steve Pinker and tell you everything is A-OK.

chb
21h ago
Yeah, he'd spit it out because it tastes like corn-fed, feed-lot crap.
fizwidget
21h ago
1 reply
When I opened Discord recently a popup appeared explaining how to earn “Orbs” and trade them for rewards. I’d say that’s pretty consistent with “capitalist hellscape”.
tavavex
20h ago
I wouldn't say they're at the hellscape stage yet. They need money, but they still haven't locked in enough customers to start outright abusing them. So they use middle of the road approaches like their quests, stores and cosmetics to get some extra cash while also having these things be completely optional and beside the actual messaging experience. Only after they get big enough will the hellscape stage start - perhaps, banner ads, automatically joining sponsored servers for users, clawing back essential features to put them behind Nitro, stuff like that.
verdverm
21h ago
those new Discord ads sure are great!
rrix2
21h ago
i would respond to this but i'm not paying enough Nitro credits to access those characters on my keyboard
oytis
19h ago
It's probably old age, but I can't understand how people enjoy Discord or find it useful. To me it's like another Slack to try to stay on top of, except no one is paying me to stay on top of Discord. Discussion forums were truly the peak of the internet to me
ekjhgkejhgk
22h ago
It's better than the vast majority of social media, but it's still a walled garden. I wouldn't use it for anything important to me.
ajkjk
21h ago
dunno what world you live in, but that was the line that resonated the most for me...
INTPenis
22h ago
I think it's a great quote. Even bsky is part of the problem until regular people can host nodes in it.

Fedi is never going to be consistent, but it's also always going to be accessible to everyone. And therefore truly by the people for the people.

wat10000
21h ago
Billions of people are on social media platforms run by massive companies who spend enormous sums of money researching how to get and keep people addicted to their platforms. Vast teams of highly paid experts spend their days figuring out how to keep people coming back, and their happiness or well being are not a concern. Conflict and rage get engagement, so they push conflict and rage.

It's everything previous generations feared about the "boob tube" but a thousand times worse, since it's precisely personalized and backed by analysis and data that TV executives wouldn't have even dreamed of having.

Mastodon is the only social media I pay attention to, because it's the only one that doesn't constantly shovel addictive shit in my face. The fact that approximately nobody uses it, but most of the planet uses the big corporate addiction factories, is in my eyes well worth the quoted statement.

billy99k
22h ago
1 reply
This is the problem with a stressful role, with little compensation. Most people wouldn't want to be in this position.

It sounds like anyone that runs a moderately sized open source project.

More money would solve most of these issues.

duxup
21h ago
2 replies
I used to volunteer moderate a very busy forum.

Our rule was that anyone who wanted to moderate “too much” was effectively not allowed to do so.

The catch being finding those who would help out and moderate effectively was not easy. And even then you were cycling through them regularly as inevitably if they cared enough they also cared enough that they stepped down.

I do wonder though if you have people doing it for the money, would that help or hinder?

bigiain
19h ago
1 reply
One fairly busy forum I cofounded and "moderated" on, we intentionally call the moderators "Janitors" in an attempt to dissuade the sort of people who wanted "a powerful role" from even wanting to ask. It sorta mostly worked, largely because there were 7 very like minded cofounders of that forum who stared it as an escape route when a previous version was sold to a forum-monetising company (Vertical Scope, from memory).
layer8
18h ago
“Moderator” used to sound like a boring role as well once upon a time.
billy99k
21h ago
You can probavly get better, more accountable moderators, if it meant losing your job for violating the rules.

Money could also be invested in developers to maintain Mastadon and issue security fixes.

periodjet
22h ago
5 replies
> The fediverse is an island within an increasingly dystopian capitalist hellscape.

It’s telling that people like this who use “capitalism” as a pejorative never have any compelling alternative to offer beyond “let experts in the state micromanage everyone and everything”.

bluGill
21h ago
1 reply
Just remember Marx created Capitalism as a strawman to argue against. Marx of course couldn't tell people the classical liberal ideas (not to be confused with what we call liberal today) of freedom were bad things - they would not like being told freedom is bad. So he found something he could push to 11 and argue against that.
tavavex
20h ago
1 reply
He defined what "capitalism" meant, did he not? Just using the word isn't some fringe rhetoric, it's mainstream economics. Neither is categorizing ideologies after they happened - of course new ideologies would frame themselves in the noblest ways possible, so we need unrelated people as a second opinion to put their ideas into concrete terms. Insisting that we must call it "freedom" or even "classical liberal freedom" is like me creating an ideology that professes "universal happiness and free prosperity of wonder" and then insisting that everyone must call it that, regardless of what the ideology entails and whether it results in universal happiness or not.
bluGill
20h ago
sure he defined it. However what he defined is not what anything is based on or is so it isn't nearly as useful a term as supporters like to think.

clasical liberalism is a lot more complex than what he defined, and that is the system most of us live in. Calling it capitalism is wrong, as is thinking ecconomics based on that term matters much in the real world

ekjhgkejhgk
22h ago
> It’s telling that people like this who use “capitalism” as a pejorative never have any compelling alternative to offer beyond “let experts in the state micromanage everyone and everything”.

He literally built something that doesn't involve experts, or the state, or micromanaging anyone or anything.

Is this a new talking point you just learned about?

abdullahkhalids
21h ago
Many physicists between 1859 and 1915ish talked about how Newtonian mechanics was incorrect because it could not explain the perihelion precession of Mercury [1]. No one had any idea what the better system would be, till Einstein developed the theory of general relativity ~1915.

Why would not point out what is wrong with the current system?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(planet)#Advance_of_pe...

kragen
21h ago
The open internet, open-source software, and federated protocols allow people to manage their own affairs without any experts in the state. You may have to pay a capitalist firm for access to the internet to run your Mastodon server, but you don't have to run the server itself as a capitalist activity. Open-source software and money are two alternative ways to collaborate successfully with people you don't trust.
ajkjk
21h ago
You would really have to ask a person to know that.
jonathaneunice
22h ago
2 replies
"I always want to say to people who want to be rich and famous: 'try being rich first'. See if that doesn't cover most of it. There's not much downside to being rich, other than paying taxes and having your relatives ask you for money. But when you become famous, you end up with a 24-hour job." -- Bill Murray
weinzierl
21h ago
2 replies
In addition to that: With money you can always buy popularity easily, but converting popularity into money is hard work at least. I'd even say that turning fame into significant wealth is an art only few have truly mastered.
michaelt
21h ago
5 replies
> With money you can always buy popularity easily

I don’t know if Elon Musk is an example or a counter-example. Maybe both?

Tool_of_Society
21h ago
1 reply
Well he was doing a good job at buying popularity until he fired his PR team so..
mlindner
20h ago
1 reply
Elon Musk has never had a PR team... Which is maybe the better point. (Or if he did, he hasn't had one in the 15+ years I've been watching him.)
plorkyeran
19h ago
After the taking Tesla private tweet that got him in trouble with the SEC he hired some people, but that didn't last long. Tesla had a PR team until a few years ago but he probably did not listen to them very much.
bigiain
20h ago
1 reply
Sadly, I suspect he's reasonably successful at being popular amongst the people he wants to be popular with.

Taylor Swift is super popular in the demographic she plays to, while being unpopular with, say, techno or metal fans.

Musk is super popular in the outspoken nazi demographic. (And has fallen way way out of popularity with huge parts of demographics that he used to be popular in, like electric car people, home solar/battery people, and spaceflight fans.)

mlindner
20h ago
3 replies
[delayed]
Nevermark
19h ago
> It's well known that among the group that I would call "pro-America technologists" that he's highly appreciated and many want to figure out how to replicate him.

> As a spaceflight fan who was a fan of Musk all the way back in ~2012, I'm still a fan of him today

Elon is a rare human being.

He is pretty much what his haters think of him (a political/social troll/child).

And he is also what his worshipers think (an incredible technical and business visionary).

Most people have trouble with dissonance. Elon is dissonance. They see a joke or a god.

A small segment clearly see both sides. I find it a painful experience. But reality isn't always bubblegum and sparkles.

undeveloper
16h ago
is your idea of "pro-America" being a white supremacist state by chance? that hitler salute not subtle enough?
hat_monger
16h ago
> It's well known that among the group that I would call "pro-America technologists"

You should start calling them “pro-India technologists”

forgetfulness
21h ago
What he can’t buy is being at peace and content with the popularity he already has
mig39
20h ago
Yeah, giving Nazi salutes is a great way to buy popularity.
lovich
20h ago
He’s an example. He has to burn massive amounts of money to counteract the fact that he wants to be the town asshole in public constantly.

If someone who had 5 dollars to their name acted like Elon Musk no one on this forum would question hating the fucker, but he’s got cash so some set of people think he might be right

RobotToaster
21h ago
And if you can't buy popularity you can always buy a really high wall.
wmeredith
21h ago
2 replies
I've heard a similar maxim that being rich is fantastic, rich and famous is good, poor is bad, poor and famous is a nightmare.
groundzeros2015
19h ago
The quote from the “jackass” crew is the opposite. If you’re famous you don’t need money. You just walk up and ask.
jongjong
20h ago
I was poor and recognizable in a tiny niche related to open source tools and 100% this was true. The recognition creates envy and ambitious people invest extra effort to sabotage you... Often, people who are rich see you as a threat and go all out war on you... And you don't have any buffer or support so you have to be 10x better just to stay afloat. Convincing people to work with you is much harder since you can't offer them any money and must offer pure equity... And your reputation, which fades over time, is the only thing that makes such equity potentially valuable.

OP has the problem that his product is much more well known than he is. That's probably why he is not richer. Though at least his product is a mainstream brand by now. He can get recognition by association once he does the reveal "I'm the guy who created Mastodon" this creates opportunities... Though perhaps not as big opportunities as one may think. It depends on the degree of control he has over the product. In general, with open source or other community-oriented products, the control is limited.

ekjhgkejhgk
22h ago
6 replies
Mastodon is great. It's just unfortunate that the number of people is on the low side.
INTPenis
22h ago
1 reply
>The fediverse is an island within an increasingly dystopian capitalist hellscape.
bovermyer
22h ago
These two statements are not mutually exclusive.
dsr_
21h ago
1 reply
I think the fediverse is great but: the specific desire for "more people that you already know coming to the Fediverse" is good; the general desire "more people" is not such a useful goal.
bigiain
19h ago
Yeah. Everybody wants "more of the right kind of people", but there are as many interpretations of "the right kind of people" as there are people.

People and interactions between them are just messy. And that's not a thing there can be any tech solutions to.

For me, there are several clear step changes in groups based on size and there closeness of the relationships. A close circle of perhaps up to a dozen or two trustworthy friends is different to that same sized group of less trusted people. As the group size grows, it becomes less possible for the sort if "trusted" status of all group members to exist, and that fundamentally changes things. There's another step change when the group gets big enough that you can't personally know all the members. And another big step change when the group gets big enough that you can't even recognise all the members names (in my head, this is associated with a lot if the postulating about Dunbar's Number, however bad that research really was).

verdverm
21h ago
4 replies
On boarding is too complicated for your average social user

https://atproto.com has more of the developer mindshare now

lutoma
21h ago
1 reply
It's also effectively centralized. Of course that makes the experience easier.
verdverm
20h ago
1 reply
If you cannot reach UX that normal people will use, you're building for the very few

tradeoffs are acceptable to help our social fabric to take a step in a better direction and away from corporate silos and the attention economy

kstrauser
20h ago
1 reply
Except that usernames contain a domain name component, and the “bare” username likely isn’t globally unique, the UX is nearly the same as other microblogs. And as to that username bit, people are used to joe@gmail.com and joe@outlook.com being different people, and having to specify which one they’re trying to send an email to.

Everyone who’s both email and Twitter already understands all the basic concepts.

verdverm
20h ago
1 reply
> And as to that username bit, people are used to joe@gmail.com and joe@outlook.com being different people, and having to specify which one they’re trying to send an email to.

User handles are unique in ATProto because of the domain, just like email. Not sure what the "except" part is about. Can you clarify? In ATProto, they are not "bare"

ActivityPub is the same, except they are tied to the server you join. In ATProto, they are decoupled from your data host so you can move your data and server without changing your handle. You can also change your handle without moving anything else, because handle points to a DID behind the scenes

kstrauser
18h ago
1 reply
Ah, to be clear, I was thinking of ActivityPub.

How’s ATProto work for the 99.9% of people who don’t own domains?

cmckn
16h ago
You just get a *.bsky.social handle.
Zak
21h ago
1 reply
The thing I really don't love about ATProto is its decision, or that of its dominant implementation to enforce a schema ("lexicon") on content, limiting interoperation between disparate software. This violates the Old Internet idea of software being liberal about what it accepts.

For a concrete example, I tagged a Lemmy community in a Mastodon post today. Lemmy is Reddit-like and Mastodon is Twitter-like, but it displays reasonable on Lemmy using the first line of the post as a title and expanding to the attached image when clicked in the default Lemmy UI. I can also post a long-form article on Wordpress (with a plugin) and have it show up in Mastodon even though it has a short character limit by default.

verdverm
21h ago
That's an incorrect assessment

Lexicon schema are not enforced, they are a tool for social coordination, and most implementations are very liberal in what they accept

https://www.pfrazee.com/blog/lexicon-guidance

> isTool: true; isRule: false; meaning: undefined

tcfhgj
20h ago
1 reply
how do you measure "too complicted"?
verdverm
19h ago
2 replies
Didn't measure what complicated means, these are the words people who churned use

Generally the first point is server selection. That's too complicated for most users

tcfhgj
19h ago
1 reply
Somehow I doubt it is.

People are capable of selecting phones, phone network providers, e-mail providers, Internet providers, but selecting a server for mastodon is too complicated?

Don't buy it

verdverm
19h ago
> Don't buy it

Not listening to users is when learning stops

You are making bad analogies, compare AP to other social media networks and what users expect when signing up

SoftTalker
18h ago
That’s actually why I never tried it. Server selection. Choice paralysis. Gave up.
RobotToaster
21h ago
It's another centralised service
LastTrain
21h ago
2 replies
I wish it were better. I really want to move to it, but they’ve somehow managed to even make something as simple as liking a toot unintuitive. Boost and favorite don’t fit the bill.
BeetleB
20h ago
2 replies
Honest question: Why is it important to like a toot? What benefit does liking one provide?
abdullahkhalids
19h ago
2 replies
It indicates to the poster that someone (you) liked their post. Perhaps that encourages them to make other similar posts.
BeetleB
19h ago
2 replies
In which case either favorite or bookmark will do the trick, correct? Why worry whether you're clicking the "wrong" one?

Boost will also do it, but it has more side effects.

abdullahkhalids
17h ago
In real life, your friend tells you a moderately funny story that happened to him. You tell the friend, "nice story" (that's a like).

Another friend tells you a super funny story. You then go and tell other friends this same funny story. (that's a boost).

Different real life things, that are captured by digital tools.

What I have a problem with are quote tweets, which are like talking about someone in front of them, without including them in the conversation.

LastTrain
18h ago
Because I don’t want to boost or add the toot to a perma-list, I just want to give the person that posted something I like some acknowledgement.
krapp
17h ago
1 reply
That sounds like exactly the kind of addiction-reinforcing Skinner box nonsense that leads to influencers, parasocial relationships and a content economy, and all of the dark patterns of social media that the fediverse is designed to avoid.

People shouldn't be posting to get the endorphine rush from clicks or to satisfy metrics. They should post whatever they want, whenever they want. If you like what someone posts, you can follow their account, or better yet the hashtags they use. That should be sufficient.

Not having a like button seems like a good design choice TBH.

LastTrain
17h ago
1 reply
The issue with social media isn’t with encouraging or content creators, it is with how consumers are conditioned.
krapp
17h ago
The incentives are related and create a feedback loop. Give someone a number and they'll do whatever it takes to make that number go up.
LastTrain
18h ago
It isn’t important, it’s just something I would like to do.
tcfhgj
20h ago
how is clicking a heart or a star - depending on the UI - unintuitive?
pndy
21h ago
1 reply
I see bots that import from/link to other sources, bots that are clearly someone's attempts at automation. Then "classic" ad spam bots and countless porn/drawn lewd content profiles and even instances that contain nothing else.

Normal people are getting buried beneath all of this trash and if you actually want to have some conversations you need to either look up by particular tags or comment in trending posts.

jeromegv
20h ago
1 reply
> Normal people are getting buried beneath all of this trash

This is the entire opposite of my experience on Mastodon. I get buried in trash on Twitter, any semi-popular tweet ends up with hundreds of bots and racial slurs. I see none of that on Mastodon

Really curious how you ended up in a situation like that.

pndy
20h ago
1 reply
I tried two different instances and two different accounts, following people and really extensive post filtering and it still happen.

Also no matter if content was filtered or not, three different applications on iOS and Android were crashing after trying to scroll through streams - local and federated. I guess it was because of that trash overload.

It's not like I don't like mastodon, fediverse - on contrary, it's an amazing idea. I had really nice conversations there for a while - till people drop their masks.

BeetleB
20h ago
Curious: Are you looking at the local/federated timeline, or just the people you follow?

I strongly urge you to stick to the latter.

I get nothing like what you describe, but I ensure the local/federated timeline stays out of my feed.

criddell
21h ago
At some point more users would probably make everything worse. Having a low user count is probably a good thing.

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