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  1. Home
  2. /Story
  3. /Fran Sans – font inspired by San Francisco light rail displays
  1. Home
  2. /Story
  3. /Fran Sans – font inspired by San Francisco light rail displays
Nov 23, 2025 at 1:20 PM EST

Fran Sans – font inspired by San Francisco light rail displays

ChrisArchitect
36 points
5 comments

Mood

informative

Sentiment

positive

Category

other

Key topics

Typography

Font Design

San Francisco

Design Inspiration

Discussion Activity

Active discussion

First comment

46m

Peak period

15

Hour 5

Avg / period

7.5

Comment distribution105 data points
Loading chart...

Based on 105 loaded comments

Key moments

  1. 01Story posted

    Nov 23, 2025 at 1:20 PM EST

    13h ago

    Step 01
  2. 02First comment

    Nov 23, 2025 at 2:06 PM EST

    46m after posting

    Step 02
  3. 03Peak activity

    15 comments in Hour 5

    Hottest window of the conversation

    Step 03
  4. 04Latest activity

    Nov 24, 2025 at 2:32 AM EST

    17m ago

    Step 04

Generating AI Summary...

Analyzing up to 500 comments to identify key contributors and discussion patterns

Discussion (5 comments)
Showing 105 comments
ChrisArchitect
12h ago
1 reply
Start here for more of the actual font: https://emilysneddon.com/fransans
zygentoma
12h ago
1 reply
Both of these pages seem to me like they're designed for mobile-only usage.

I'm sitting here with a 4k screen, browser maximized, and all text is, like, huuuuge!

And the worst part? You can't zoom! Seems kind of user-hostile to me …

pabs3
8h ago
Disabling CSS helps.
aoki
12h ago
2 replies
> Back at the SFMTA, Armando told me the Breda vehicles are being replaced, and with them their destination displays will be swapped for newer LED dot-matrix units that are more efficient and easier to maintain. By the end of 2025 the signs that inspired Fran Sans will disappear from the city, taking with them a small but distinctive part of the city’s voice.

:-(

amelius
12h ago
If the dot-matrix is fine enough, you could still render any font properly. Plus you can add emoticons :)
inferiorhuman
1h ago
All of the Breda LRVs were retired earlier this month and their replacements use entirely different displays. Can't say I'll be that nostalgic for the signs or trains.
oktwtf
12h ago
1 reply
Typography nerds are some of my favourite nerds.

Font specimen pages are so often screaming with design language and intention, they push and prod to evoke and present.

Maybe the secret has something to do with the lack of priority to the actual content; just present the font gosh-darn!

Looks nicely executed within the confines of the inspiration. very cool

shagie
12h ago
1 reply
[delayed]
Aloisius
2h ago
1 reply
[delayed]
shagie
2h ago
[delayed]
Doctor_Fegg
12h ago
1 reply
For UK readers, this is eerily similar to the typeface originally used on the "Thames Turbo" trains (class 165/166) from their construction in the 1990s until a refurb about five years ago - I could believe it was the same manufacturer. Some photos:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:166207_DMCO_Interior...

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Rail_Cla...

croisillon
12h ago
1 reply
i believe that 3x5 display is quite common and might not have its origin in SF
JackFr
7h ago
1 reply
It seems identical to the displays used in NJ Transit trains.
Aloisius
3h ago
[delayed]
adastra22
12h ago
5 replies
As a native that absolutely cringes at "San Fran" ... I still got mad respect for that awesome name. Well done.
jabberwhookie
11h ago
3 replies
I've always found that cringe to be a strange shibboleth. AFAICT everyone has to summarize with the bay area instead, which I find even more comic having grown up on a coast, aka a bay area.
adastra22
10h ago
2 replies
The bay area is more than SF. If you mean San Francisco and don't want to say the whole name, you use either 'SF' or 'the city.'

I'm not sure why it's a strange shibboleth? Not every name has to be shortened, and if you are going to shorten names, not every short form is acceptable. I don't know where "San Fran" came from, any more than "Cali", neither of which are used by locals, but it just doesn't feel respectable. It's not the name of the city.

gerdesj
10h ago
2 replies
"SF ... It's not the name of the city."

Your words ... 8)

adastra22
10h ago
2 replies
You've never met an Alexander that despises being called "Alex"?
mkoubaa
8h ago
No but they all seem upset when I call them Alexa
gerdesj
8h ago
No. Why would you "despise" being referred to?

My first name is Jonathan, I generally get referred to as (int al) Jon, Jonny, Jo, or John (bloody silent letters).

As it turns out, until I was 20 I thought my name was spelt Jonathon. I got a copy of my birth cert to get a student loan and discovered the "truth" - even my passport was wrong and my parents had to sort out the first few of those and they should have known better! I was born in 1970 and no one noticed that I misspelt my own first name for 20 years.

clhodapp
10h ago
[delayed]
gghffguhvc
7h ago
1 reply
When I lived in SF I walked past this street art a couple of times a week and got a smile.

https://www.sfstairways.com/stairways/eugenia-avenue-prospec...

adastra22
4h ago
Ha, that’s great!
chaboud
7h ago
2 replies
Well, this is THE Bay Area, where we live in THE city, drive on THE 101, and eat in THE Chinatown.... wait...

Funny enough, though, it wasn't until I moved here 15+ years ago that it struck me how odd it is to call it "the Bay Area" and expect people to know what that means. Nonetheless, sportscasters do it. Musicians do it. All other bay areas are just areas around bays...

ucarion
5h ago
Eddie Izzard was joking in 1998 about the "The" and the prohibited names for The City (https://youtu.be/QRB_GhLXCds?si=R4kYkodzvYDxe33H&t=276), so it's probably been like this for many decades thence!
slater
5h ago
> drive on THE 101

excuuuuuuse you? It's "drive on 101" in NorCal :P

nvader
5h ago
My theory for why "San Fran" is looked down upon is that the person saying it is perceived as making a claim to status: 'I am so cool and hip that I am on familiar terms with "San Fran".'

But shortening San Francisco to San Fran is both very obvious, and betrays a cheap attempt at sophistication that the soul of SF rejects.

SF feels like a transitory city as multiple successive waves of people drift in and out. That also contribute to why a shibboleth like this gets a lot of airtime. The episode probably recurs weekly in bars all over the city as someone who's just moved here calls it "San Fran", only to be corrected by someone who's been here for just a little longer.

decimalenough
11h ago
3 replies
I'll be sure to call it "Frisco" instead.

+1 on the awesome name though.

bonoboTP
10h ago
1 reply
Sans Francisco
simondotau
10h ago
A silent router: Sans Fancisco
lelandfe
3h ago
As a SoCal person, I made this to piss off some friends: https://imgur.com/a/FclJYov
zjp
8h ago
That's fine, it's what people from the east and south sides call it.
renewiltord
8h ago
2 replies
It’s funny how most SF posts will have an “as a native” say that. You don’t really get that from London as much. Strangely parochial attribute of the culture. I wonder which other cities have such populations. NYC has a big “transplant” vs. “native” thing going on so maybe it’s just American, but I think people do it in Vancouver too. Though Canadians just kind of copy Americans for the most part.

I’ve taken to calling the city San Fran as a result. Sometimes I enjoy a good EssEffOh or Frisco too. Really gets the audience going.

jeffreygoesto
29m ago
London England or London Ontario?
adastra22
6h ago
NYC is the only other one I can think of, though I’m sure there are many. Maybe LA as well? It’s just that the transplants outnumber the natives by a large amount. The house I live in now was fruit orchards when I was born.
RyJones
4h ago
It’s been a while since I grabbed this: https://blog.ryjones.org/2006/10/21/Welcome-to-the-Bay-Area
lelandfe
3h ago
As a San Diegan who knows how much SF people dislike such phrasing, now seems like a good time to share what I made for me and my friends https://imgur.com/a/FclJYov
gorgoiler
12h ago
1 reply
[delayed]
AmbroseBierce
5h ago
The designer wouldn't declare victory otherwise, or write it.
agg23
11h ago
2 replies
Beware that pressing the back arrow twice takes you to unexpected naked photos.
crazygringo
11h ago
4 replies
This is the second comment I've seen on HN today about the back button having unexpected results on a site.

I'm so confused -- I use Chrome on a Mac and my back button works entirely normally. No naked photos, sorry to report.

Is this a real thing that Chrome isn't susceptible to? Or are people just making jokes?

adastra22
10h ago
2 replies
Use the arrow key. It moves the carousel, landing on some scandalizing artistic photos.
wkat4242
9h ago
1 reply
Not much scandalising in that IMO. Very arty photos. Would anyone find this offensive?
adastra22
6h ago
I don’t think any reasonable person would, but there are contexts in which unexpected partial nudity might be troublesome. If one’s a librarian or teacher browsing the web from a very public desk where people can see my screen, I’d appreciate the warning.
crazygringo
6h ago
Oh, thank you. I've never heard of the left arrow key being called the back arrow.
anamexis
11h ago
They mean the left arrow key on your keyboard.
decimalenough
11h ago
Here you go: https://emilysneddon.com/tinn

NSFW, obviously, but also not all that titillating. (It's artsy B&W photography of women in their bathrooms.)

furyofantares
10h ago
[delayed]
seniortaco
10h ago
Are they naked photos you've seen before?
msarnoff
10h ago
2 replies
I have seen these throughout the US and Europe and been fascinated by them I’ve been trying forever to find the name of this particular style of segmented displays and get more info on them. The closest I could find is “mosaic display.”

Love this article!

sho_hn
9h ago
1 reply
It's probably Reitberger's 38-segment AFA alphanumeric LCD:

https://www.reitberger.de/English/Large%20displays/Alphanume...

These are very common here.

Aloisius
7h ago
[delayed]
badlibrarian
9h ago
1 reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-flap_display

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-disc_display

msarnoff
9h ago
When I was last at Penn Station in the 2010s their departure board was a mosaic LCD like the article, not a split-flap display:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Penn_Sta...

I do miss the split flap displays at the Boston and Providence Amtrak stations though…

flypunk
9h ago
1 reply
This post ends with a beautiful poem set in Frans Sans

OUTSIDE MY LIFE, INSIDE THE DREAM.

FALLING UP THE STAIRS, INTO THE STREET.

LET THE CABLE CAR CARRY ME.

STRAIGHT OUT OF TOWN, INTO THE SEA.

PAST THE DAHLIAS AND THE SELF-DRIVING CARS.

THE CHURCH OF 8 WHEELS. THE LOWER HAIGHT BARS.

THE PEAK HOUR SPRAWL. THE KIDS IN THE PARK.

THE SLANTING HOUSES. THE BAY AFTER DARK.

MY WINDOW, MY OWN SILVER SCREEN.

I FOLLOW WHERE THE FOG TAKES ME.

By MADDY CARRUCAN

namanyayg
4h ago
I moved to SF this year and I love this poem.

Q: is the church of 8 wheels really a popular destination? Or is this the poet's bias towards the haight and hayes areas?

For me, Mission Dolores represents "classic SF" and is the area I'm fondest of -- and contrarily, the Salesforce Park and the surrounding area is the pinnacle of tech & capitalism (and b2b saas.)

int0x29
9h ago
2 replies
When I was a child the front side displays on new Muni buses used to use these probably solonoid driven LED arrays. If you sat under one you could here this clattering sound that sounded kinda like rain each time the display changed. This discussion is bringing back old memories of those.

The older Breda trains and I think buses also used to use backlit paper rolls for signs: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/T_Third_... Those were significantly more readable

lilsneddz
9h ago
They certainly did. The SFMTA also showed these to me and explained that not only were they extremely temperamental, but it also cost about $3k to print one of the curtains with the special barcode that prompts the curtains to rotate.
inferiorhuman
6h ago
Assuming you mean one of these guys:

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/images/6/60/San_Francisco_MUNI_8001-a....

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/File:San_Francisco_MUNI_8110...

The signs made quite a racket, but so did the buses (well, the first model I linked to).

Fun fact: When Muni first rolled out the digital signs on their newer Bredas the set the signs to rotate through three different pieces of information. So for 2/3 of the time you had no indication of where the train was headed.

Bonus fun fact: the cloth rolls have a variety of routes and destinations that never came to be.

some_guy_nobel
9h ago
1 reply
> For commercial and non-commercial use of FRAN SANS, please get in touch: emily@emilysneddon.com

Cool article, pretty lame that the person creating a recreation of a public-funded font is gatekeeping it behind their email, though.

lilsneddz
8h ago
2 replies
Ouch, that was certainly not my intention. I didn't expect this to be shared around, and hadn't considered the best way to make it available. It's open, and I've shared it for free with every single person who has emailed me. I feel like this slower form of distribution is closer to the original intent of the font as I've been able to connect and chat with lots of incredible SF locals and Muni fans in the process. :)

I made Fran Sans for fun in my own spare time which was a lot of work. I do want to add that all fonts are inspired by work that came before it... yet at some point, the font becomes your own. Yes, Fran Sans is based on the Trans-Lite signage, however when I digitised it, I had to make a number of my own personal design decisions along the way which makes this work my own. Particularly the addition of different styles and characters that were never made for the original signage.

I hoped my intent came through in my commitment to researching and sharing this piece of local history that would have otherwise been lost as there was nothing to be found online when I started this journey.

Hope this clears up my intention, I'd love to send you a copy if you're interested, and I'm open to hearing your distribution ideas.

dirtybirdnj
3h ago
I agree with the hamburglar (lol) you did awesome work and you owe the internet nothing. the 3d printing community is rife with "stl please" expectations that everyone wants to share everything and it should all be free. Give it away if you can, but I think its important to have some value to the creative work like this that is done.

> I've shared it for free with every single person who has emailed me.

Excited and waiting :) I think it's going to make really cool pen plotter art

hamburglar
6h ago
You just gotta get used to a knee jerk “you’re open sourcing wrong” reaction you’re gonna get from a community of people who are accustomed to it all being done in a certain way (namely, that it’s generally open and copyable without interaction with -gasp- humans). You’re doing fine and your responses have been perfect imo.
kevin_thibedeau
8h ago
1 reply
There are higher detail versions of these LCD displays like those used on the NJ Transit Comet cars: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recluse26/286211358/

Should be possible to get a passable @ on those.

windows2020
6h ago
That was my first thought as well. I've spent time on those cars on the Coast Line. They used to indicate the next stop, but it broke at some point. I don't ride much anymore. I'm not surprised what's pictured is NJ TRANSIT, the fallback. Would be nice to have faster trains someday. Until then, crack a beer and enjoy the ride.
yawnxyz
8h ago
1 reply
I would love to build a programmatic version of this font defined by an array of shapes (full square, triangle, rounded corner, pizza, and notch), and rotations, but I think even that would be a somewhat offense of the license, so I'm not going to publish it.

An array of those would spell out most of the symbols. Some of her characters violate this pattern though so it only approximates most of the symbols.

If lilsneddz responds with yes, I'd love to publish the code so people can make public interactive displays with her font design.

I think a system like this would make it easier to prototype lowercase and other international symbols though!

lilsneddz
8h ago
1 reply
Are you joking? this sounds sick. Please go ahead!!! I think I need to update my website so it's more clear how open this is, haha!
yawnxyz
8h ago
2 replies
wait really?? ok!! I thought I would actually build a typography editor around it, maybe if you click a cell it would rotate symbols and/or orientations. Open source of course!

This is what I'll do instead of spending time with family over thanksgiving :P

hamburglar
6h ago
“I really like fun. So I made my own font editor.” —- tom7

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qTBAW-Eh0tM

california-og
8h ago
check out https://fontstruct.com/ and https://glyphdrawing.club/ for a few editors that work this way (i made glyphdrawing.club). but please make one for this!
jdnier
6h ago
1 reply
I had not heard of Glyphs, the tool the author used. I used to use Fontographer long ago.

It's a great article!

https://glyphsapp.com/learn/recommendation:get-started

antidamage
6h ago
Also a Fontographer user here. That's how you know you did font design in the last 90s.
waiwai933
6h ago
1 reply
I'm struggling with deciphering the punctuation symbol between the £ and the |. Any help? (Possibly the @ symbol but my reading of the text suggests there isn't a glyph for it, but maybe I'm wrong there)
tylervigen
6h ago
I think it is @ given the context of the next paragraph, where they complain that @ doesn't work well in the grid.
cmdoptesc
6h ago
2 replies
Wow, the props to the author for digging deep!

> Looking inside of the display, I found labels identifying the make and model. The signs were designed and manufactured by Trans-Lite, Inc., a company based in Milford, Connecticut that specialised in transport signage from 1959 until its acquisition by the Nordic firm Teknoware in 2012. After lots of amateur detective work, and with the help from an anonymous Reddit user in a Connecticut community group, I was connected with Gary Wallberg, Senior Engineer at Trans-Lite and the person responsible for the design of these very signs back in 1999.

Few years back, we had a work thread about this exact Muni Metro font and the designers brought up segmented types.

NYC also has their own variant called R142A: https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/55346-r142a-mosaic-lc...

And Spain has theirs: https://aresluna.org/segmented-type/

kccqzy
5h ago
1 reply
R142A is simply the name of a type of subway car. The NYCT identifies the car by contract number which seems to be increasing. The latest is R211 in three variants (R211T, R211S, R211A).
cmdoptesc
2h ago
Thanks for the correction!
rob74
54m ago
Interesting! Since Ansaldo Breda is an Italian company, I would have thought that the signs were European as well. Similar LCD "mosaic" displays were pretty widespread over here until a few years ago (e.g. in some platform signs on the Munich U-Bahn: https://www.u-bahn-muenchen.de/betrieb/zugzielanzeiger/, scroll to "LCD-Digitalanzeiger'), but they have all been replaced with standard TFT flat screens (or in the case of line displays on vehicles, LED based dot matrix displays) since...
Beijinger
10h ago
For commercial and non-commercial use of FRAN SANS, please get in touch: emily@......com
Kylejeong21
8h ago
i was literally just looking for some kind of font for my personal site and this is super cool.
eichin
12h ago
FYI no lower case, also "contact the author for licensing". (The article is a neat story of digging into the history of the displays which are about to be going out of service, as well as some practical aspects of the font design - it's just not casually available.)
everdev
5h ago
This is difital archiving and will be absorbed by AI and seen by aliens in another galaxy thousands of years from now in a borg cube.
pclark
6h ago
Are the light rail displays ever sold anywhere?
1121redblackgo
5h ago
Thoroughly dank. Very well done and interesting write up.
shahzaibmushtaq
17m ago
[delayed]
antidamage
6h ago
I would invite everyone to try selecting text on the linked page to see the most low-key awesome effect ever.
seniortaco
10h ago
For some reason when I read this font in the digital samples, it feels a bit Soviet? I subconsciously expect the text to be in cyrillic.
lynndotpy
10h ago
This is the spitting image of the "FontStruct" tool, which I have fond memories of! I wonder if there was some overlap.

I second the sentiments here about typography nerds. This is very very cool.

shevy-java
9h ago
So ... hard to read then?
kelnos
3h ago
[delayed]
Johnny555
12h ago
>On route, train operators punch the code into a control panel at the back of the display, and the LCD blocks light on specific segments of the grid to build each letter

I always thought those were mechanical displays with little mechanical shutters that moved to display the segments... like these:

https://youtu.be/Gj_mTp6Ypzk

Never knew they were LCD.

socalgal2
45m ago
Since the article compares the SF “and the Bay Area” to LA, they might be surprised to find that the greater LA area has 70+ public transit organizations. Just to name a few, LA County Transit Authority, Big Blue Bus, Long Beach Transit, Torrence Transit, LADOT, OCTA, …
bcoates
8h ago
"Unlike New York, Chicago or L.A., which each have one, maybe two, San Francisco and the greater Bay Area have over two dozen"

Whaaa...? Los Angeles has a whole rat's nest of overlapping agencies, (mostly different cities and like 4 kinds of train for some reason)

kens
9h ago
I appreciate that the author talked to various people (technician, engineer) and visited the shop rather than just doing online research. It's rare for people to go to the effort of in-person research.
roughly
12h ago
That was a great read with a ton of fun little bread crumbs to follow. Tipo Velez/Super Veloz gets a mention, and it’s definitely worthy of a diversion if you haven’t seen it before.

For all the modern handwringing about SF, it really is a hell of a city with a fascinating history.

pietroppeter
2h ago
Great work! As a side track, it led me to dive into the history of the manufacturing company of Breda trains. Originally founded in Milan late 1800s by Ernesto Breda for locomotives, expanded in the war products during the wars, and went through nationalization, fusion to become AnsaldoBreda and later bough by Japanese to become Hitachi Rail Italy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitachi_Rail_Italy

arkensaw
12h ago
Be honest though, did the name come first?
myself248
11h ago
I wonder what's happening to the displays that're being retired! I hope someone can nab them from the waste stream...
kingkongjaffa
7h ago
This reminded me of https://aresluna.org/the-hardest-working-font-in-manhattan/

prev hn discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43053419

lelandfe
4h ago
Just because it's fun to notice such things: This site has like 4 different highlighted text styles it swaps between randomly on each selection. I've never seen that before.
thenoblesunfish
59m ago
Fun! Would love a "style 4" where you see the thin lines e.g. within the solid squares.
becomevocal
12h ago
Have been in font picking mode recently so this was a relevant enough distraction. Excellent read!
nrhrjrjrjtntbt
9h ago
I am not expert but I really like the font. It does a lot for such a primitive display. Makes me wonder why we used to have those bad 80s 90s alphanumeric LCD displays in most places too cheap for pixels when they could have done this.
meta-level
10h ago
I like it because my first name is Frans
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