Back to Home10/2/2025, 7:19:15 PM

Gov workers say their shutdown out-of-office replies were forcibly changed

116 points
126 comments

Mood

heated

Sentiment

negative

Category

politics

Key topics

government shutdown

politicization of government

free speech

Debate intensity85/100

Government workers claim their out-of-office replies were forcibly changed during the shutdown, sparking concerns about politicization and free speech violations. The discussion revolves around the implications of this action and the broader context of the current government's actions.

Snapshot generated from the HN discussion

Discussion Activity

Very active discussion

First comment

3m

Peak period

53

Day 1

Avg / period

29.5

Comment distribution59 data points

Based on 59 loaded comments

Key moments

  1. 01Story posted

    10/2/2025, 7:19:15 PM

    47d ago

    Step 01
  2. 02First comment

    10/2/2025, 7:22:02 PM

    3m after posting

    Step 02
  3. 03Peak activity

    53 comments in Day 1

    Hottest window of the conversation

    Step 03
  4. 04Latest activity

    10/4/2025, 5:26:48 PM

    45d ago

    Step 04

Generating AI Summary...

Analyzing up to 500 comments to identify key contributors and discussion patterns

Discussion (126 comments)
Showing 59 comments of 126
ck2
47d ago
1 reply
DOGE f-kery

it's pretty obvious they can now search and replace across most if not all government websites now

let's hope that backdoor is locked down and not available for foreign entities

and this is of course a massive Hatch-Act violation but we're way past law breaking this far into the regime

culi
47d ago
This is it. The project of DOGE was always to centralize all the disparate parts of the government to make it easier to control all of its functions by a smaller team

This is a pretty silly manifestation of that power but it's a sign of things to come. The fact that they were able to change government websites, email signatures, and more within minutes after the shutdown should scare us

Simulacra
47d ago
3 replies
That's ridiculous, and could be illegal, because in changing the response, they are taking on the speech of the named employee. If that's not a first amendment violation, I don't know what is. Federal employees are not allowed to be involved in politics while they are employed by the federal government, I know there's exceptions and everything, but at its core this action is repugnant.
philipallstar
47d ago
7 replies
> in changing the response, they are taking on the speech of the named employee

Would you say that a company adding a standard footer to your outgoing emails is taking on your speech?

smelendez
47d ago
1 reply
It depends on what the footer says.

This isn't a company though, it's the government, and it's generally considered unprofessional if not illegal for federal employees to make partisan statements on the job. There's also the fact that, in my experience, out-of-office autoreplies are generally drafted by the employee while footers are often standardized by the employer.

Additionally, there are strict rules on what federal civil servants can do during a shutdown that don't really apply in private industry, which means whatever official channels would exist to complain probably aren't available. I don't think furloughed employees are supposed to send official email, either, which means they can't clarify who provided this message even if someone is confused by it.

SpaceNoodled
47d ago
1 reply
It's illegal, as it's a violation of the Hatch Act.
fragmede
47d ago
1 reply
The official interpretation of the Hatch act was changed in April of this year, so it's likely not.
cosmicgadget
47d ago
1 reply
Wait was the statute amended or did the judiciary change the interpretation?
fragmede
47d ago
1 reply
https://osc.gov/News/Pages/25-99-OSC-Announces-Updates-to-Ha...

> Today, the U.S. Office of Special Counsel (OSC) announces a new advisory rescinding the Hatch Act advisory opinion dated May 20, 2024, and a related advisory opinion dated October 15, 2024. The Hatch Act, a federal law passed in 1939, limits certain political activity of federal employees while they are on duty, in the federal workplace, or acting in their official capacity. The new Hatch Act advisory opinion (the “April 25 Advisory") supersedes the May 20, 2024, and October 15, 2024, opinions in three ways.

> First, OSC will return to its traditional practice of referring Hatch Act violations by White House Commissioned officers to the President for appropriate action.

> Second, OSC is pausing the referral of cases against former employees to the Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB) until the legal question concerning jurisdiction is resolved.

> Third, OSC is discarding the “year-round workplace political item prohibition" on wearing or displaying of political candidate or political party items in the workplace related to the campaigns of “current or contemporaneous political figures (CCPFs)." In practice, the blanket prohibition created too great a burden on First Amendment interests.

cosmicgadget
46d ago
1 reply
So not judicial nor legislative. The Hatch Act has not changed, the president's OSC appointee has unsurprisingly decided that executive will investigate itself.

While you can grasp the barest of threads that your original statement was true because the OSC is "official" and anyone is afforded an interpretation, it's really goddamn deceptive. If anything is "the" intepretation it's derived from statute and/or common law, not one side's lawyers.

fragmede
46d ago
1 reply
I mean, the OSC isn't some bunch of randoms who call themselves "official" for funsies. Violations of the Hatch Act fall under their jurisdiction. They're the ones that investigate violations. They put out a statement that says political messages (of a certain kind) are totally fine.

This means, to me, that claiming "The official interpretation of the Hatch act was changed" isn't at all a stretch. The officials, the ones in charge of interpreting it, put out a statement saying they've changed how they're interpreting it. How is that deceptive? What words would you use instead?

cosmicgadget
45d ago
The judiciary interprets the law. As I said, you can narrowly say OSC is "official" and "interprets" the law, but it's a deceptive way to describe the situation. Hopefully we'll see another group successully claim standing for being harmed by Hatch Act violations.

An honest way to describe the situation is "the Trump OSC has decided that Trump should investigate Trump and it is unclear if anyone else can sue for relief from a politicized civil service". At the very least "they've put out a statement saying they've changed their interpretation" is far better than the passive voice.

riotnrrd
47d ago
I would say the Federal Government is different from a private company.
rolph
47d ago
this is not about attaching a standard footer.
quantified
47d ago
Government is not a company. It's less about overriding each person's OOO message (it is about in a small way) and much more about what the message is.

Just poison throughout from this admin.

Simulacra
47d ago
No, because that's a private company. Your first amendment right to the freedom of speech is freedom from government center ship and interference in your speech. It does not apply to private companies. Now with that said, adding a footer, I don't think would be a problem, but if you set an away message and they changed that for a political reason, then it could be said that they impersonating you to broadcast a political message. Then it might be a civil matter.
ambicapter
47d ago
Why are you bringing in private companies as an argument in a discussion about free speech, which only applies to government entities?
lesuorac
47d ago
I don't think I've ever worked anywhere that does that.

What does the footer say?

briandear
47d ago
3 replies
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Did congress pass a law I missed? Government communication isn’t a 1st Amendment issue. When you work for any employer, you are subject to the whims of that employer.

JustExAWS
47d ago
1 reply
The laws are different when you work for the government. A private employee can fire you for something you said a lot easier than the government.

https://www.welcometothejungle.com/en/articles/free-speech-a...

bragr
47d ago
2 replies
>The laws are different when you work for the government.

Which laws? Because every government job I've come across has pretty strict rules on what you can and cannot say in public, or at least they way in which you have to frame it apart from your job.

JustExAWS
47d ago
1 reply
I added the link in my comment in an edit before you replied to be fair

https://www.welcometothejungle.com/en/articles/free-speech-a...

But from the ABA for a more reliable source.

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/yourab...

JustExAWS
47d ago
I meant I added the parent link after you replied. In other words it was on me for not providing a citation
Simulacra
47d ago
I think there's two parts of that question. The first is that the law is the hatch act, federal employees may not engage in political activities. But the second thing is, the government is assuming your identity to change your speech and broadcast that speech as if you said it. I'm not a lawyer, but I think that would squarely follow government action to abridge your speech.
rolph
47d ago
1 reply
actually, governments are severly limited in compelling or interfering with political speech

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatch_Act

rufus_foreman
47d ago
1 reply
Governments are not limited by the Hatch Act, civil service employees are. And the limitations are mainly around elections, so for example under the Hatch Act a civil service employee may not "use his official authority or influence for the purpose of interfering with or affecting the result of an election", may not "knowingly solicit, accept, or receive a political contribution from any person", may not "run for the nomination or as a candidate for election to a partisan political office", and may not "knowingly solicit or discourage the participation in any political activity" of someone who the civil service employee is interacting with.
rolph
47d ago
The Hatch Act of 1939, An Act to Prevent Pernicious Political Activities, is a United States federal law that prohibits "civil service employees in the executive branch"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_(government)

the only copout is if it is president or vice president doing it, or someone outside the executive branch.

quantified
47d ago
This isn't a 1st Amendment issue.
gizmo686
47d ago
Setting aside first amendment implications; this is a brazen violation of the Hatch act on the part of whoever set the partisan reply.
passive
47d ago
4 replies
This weaponization of public resources for partisan purposes is hardly surprising, but given the government is shut down, I would imagine black or even grey hats might feel like it's open season on .gov, so I would be surprised to see much durability in their attempts.
razster
47d ago
1 reply
This post from Reddit’s Redding, California community is definitely weaponized. https://old.reddit.com/r/Redding/comments/1nvgu8b/guess_i_wo...
culi
47d ago
1 reply
Nothing to do with Redding. It's all over the USDA website: https://www.fs.usda.gov/

> The Radical Left Democrats shut down the government. This government website will be updated periodically during the funding lapse for mission critical functions. President Trump has made it clear he wants to keep the government open and support those who feed, fuel, and clothe the American people.

l2p
47d ago
2 replies
SBA message is somehow worse... https://sba.gov
culi
47d ago
1 reply
> Senate Democrats voted to block a clean federal funding bill (H.R. 5371), leading to a government shutdown that is preventing the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) from serving America’s 36 million small businesses.

> Every day that Senate Democrats continue to oppose a clean funding bill, they are stopping an estimated 320 small businesses from accessing $170 million in SBA-guaranteed funding.

> As a result of the shutdown, we wanted to notify you that many of our services supporting small businesses are currently unavailable. The agency is executing its Lapse Plan and as soon as the shutdown is over, we are prepared to immediately return to the record-breaking services we were providing under the leadership of the Trump Administration.

> If you need disaster assistance, please visit sba.gov/disaster.

johnnyanmac
47d ago
1 reply
Just to add some context to this "clean federal funding": a "clean bill" here means "let things expire". Democrats are fighting for a continuing resolution which extends whatever is about to expire.

In this case, the ACA subsidies would expire if a clean funding bill is passed.

xp84
47d ago
3 replies
The Democrats already lost the battle on those things (cuts to Medicaid + no extension of Obamacare subsidies) and they were already going to happen because Democrats didn’t (and don’t) have the votes to renew them because they can’t win elections. Now they’re using this opportunity to try to get those things back at gunpoint. It’s not propaganda that the Republicans have offered a CR which changes nothing additional. Once again, Democrats expect to enact their own policy goals with 47 Senate seats and find it doesn’t go so well. Maybe some decade they will go back to trying to convince voters to vote for them instead of just ridiculing everyone outside their echo chamber.

(I’m not a democrat or a republican, I’m not rooting for either one.)

foogazi
47d ago
1 reply
> Democrats didn’t (and don’t) have the votes to renew them because they can’t win elections.

They win once and all of a sudden they feel they are the new kings

johnnyanmac
46d ago
After this all blows over, I never want to hear a 1A nor 2A argument from anyone who voted for this ever again. Nor anything about balancing the budget It's clear that they love to be treaded on and welcome it on a red carpet.
johnnyanmac
46d ago
2 replies
>’m not a democrat or a republican, I’m not rooting for either one

You clear are of you're rooting for your own Healthcare premiums to go up. This really isn't a left or right issue.

Heck, this proportionately hurts red states more. Must be so tiring in office to try and defend people who actively wish for your destruction.

dns_snek
46d ago
1 reply
> This really isn't a left or right issue.

That's precisely what this is, views on welfare are one of the most fundamental ideological differences between "the left" and "the right".

What's messed up is that people who need social welfare and subsidies the most end up voting for conservatism and austerity, so everyone ends up twisting the definitions of "the left" and "the right" to rationalize their own choices.

johnnyanmac
46d ago
It's really not, it's a uniquely American problem. You don't have the far right in the UK nor Japan nor India try to argue about increasing Healthcare premiums. It's as foreign idea to them as national id's are for the US.

But yes, I completely agree with your comment otherwise.

xp84
45d ago
1 reply
I’m not on Obamacare, so my premiums aren’t going up. Obamacare is also pretty terrible, since those plans always have worse networks than private insurance since those plans have shitty reimbursement rates. Anyone who can avoid Obamacare plans avoids them, and is smart to do so.

One reason I don’t support the DNC is because Obamacare is such a shitty and compromised system, designed to help insurance companies maximize their profits. Since the Democrats can’t convince anyone to vote for them because they are obsessed with draping themselves in the mantles of unpopular culture war issues, they have proven unable to get the kind of power it would take to pass even a public option, let alone an “NHS.”

I don’t support the GOP, of course, because instead of coming up with a better alternative or an overhaul, they just fuck around with it and try to make it worse and more expensive.

Both sides are idiots here.

johnnyanmac
45d ago
>designed to help insurance companies maximize their profits.

What Healthcare plan isn't going to help private insurance benefit? Medicare/caid already puts a trillion dollar in funding it, so this isn't isn't something that can be fully government funded with the US's current debt. They'll have to worn with existing companies on this. It's not an easy problem to solve.

The solution here is to get more progressive people into these seats so they get better deals and control the greed of private Healthcare, not just hold your hands up and say "both sides bad" and do nothing. Doing nothing only forwards the status quo, and the status quo ain't really great right now.

Isn't that a common Dem criticism? That we can't compromise and end up standing for nothing because every possible candidate has some small issue that makes t >the Democrats can’t convince anyone to vote for them because they are obsessed with draping themselves in the mantles of unpopular culture war issues

You're falling for the right wing spin. We still have Trump complaining about trans athletes as the government is shut down and somehow the democrats are focusing on the culture war? You're conflating internet culture wars with the DC politicians. Only one voter base has pushed this point and it's precisely to distract.

I'm on communities them "unsupportable"? I don't like that either. You don't make solutions without compromise.

like HN precisely to filter out thst bickering and focus on what's actually affecting my life.

Government has traditionally been horrible at establishing culture anyway. They can facilitate it, but it's down to the people to make do with the tools given.

Sabinus
47d ago
Forget Medicaid expansions expiring, the Democrat ultimatum should be around Trump's crypto bribes and seizing the power of the purse from Congress.
joshstrange
47d ago
HUD is pretty bad too: https://www.hud.gov/

> The Radical Left in Congress shut down the government. HUD will use available resources to help Americans in need.

Just disgusting.

eastbound
47d ago
2 replies
It’s barely anything to get a stroke upon: The article didn’t quote the text directly and paraphrased it. It means it is not persuasive per se, or it would have been used as proof.

Since the raw text couldn’t serve as proof, an entire article had to be mounted to create the feeling of being appalling. It’s an opinion piece.

And that’s all it always it: People getting hung up over principles and theories. The proof those principles aren’t universal is that they don’t uphold them themselves when they’re in power.

I wish we were able to talk to each other. There are many ways, many paths together. But no, condescension, condemnation, hate, refusal to work on your bad sides, ideas of revolution, of uprising, of disrespect of people’s vote, refusal to communicate or work together, refusal to let working people keep the fruits of their work, and in the end, we have to take over the government, or you will.

There is no sharing when it’s your side in power. So we elect a hermetically sealed government. I wish we didn’t do that.

johnnyanmac
47d ago
>I wish we were able to talk to each other.

We quickly went from "should a woman have autonomy over her body" to "can the president invade a US city" in the blink of an eye. Things are getting continually less compromisable as we edge more to "should the US be a democracy" as a question.

quantified
47d ago
In this administration only, for the coherent sentences you have written.
rolph
47d ago
the hatz are already there, they have been for a long time.
bragr
47d ago
I don't know about this shutdown, but in past shutdowns, many non-essential .gov sites just pulled the plug for the duration.
josefritzishere
47d ago
2 replies
It's pretty clear the president has dementia.
softwaredoug
47d ago
2 replies
I’m skeptical. I think he’s just always been pretty nonsensical.
lesuorac
47d ago
He took a dementia test and couldn't remember the questions the next day and instead just made up words like Man, Woman, Person, Tv, Camera.

That's dementia. He's old, it happens.

mingus88
47d ago
We’ve seen him on narcissist rage, but I think we are only beginning to witness the sundowning aggression
libraryatnight
47d ago
I doubt it'd be different if he didn't - this is the sort of thing to which his entire administration is committed. Life's not going to get better if Vance takes his place. Not saying it should be ignored, just int he context of this discussion I don't see it mattering
legitster
47d ago
Banners from all of the various affected websites:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_United_States_federal_gov...

This is like something my 7-year old would do.

rsynnott
47d ago
The Republicans control all branches of government, and are _still_ somehow blaming the democrats for this? Such babies.

Like, surely even to their own supporters this looks… not great?

xnx
47d ago
Imagine if any one of the dozen outrageous things which have happened in the past 14 days happened under any other president. There would be immediate congressional hearings and likely impeachment proceedings.
generationP
47d ago
That's the longest pronoun signature I've seen.

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