Back to Home8/24/2025, 8:02:12 AM

Valve Software handbook for new employees [pdf] (2012)

244 points
205 comments

Mood

thoughtful

Sentiment

mixed

Category

business

Key topics

company culture

management

gaming industry

Debate intensity70/100

The 2012 Valve Software handbook for new employees has been shared, sparking discussion on its relevance, company culture, and management practices.

Snapshot generated from the HN discussion

Discussion Activity

Very active discussion

First comment

31m

Peak period

142

Day 1

Avg / period

32

Comment distribution160 data points

Based on 160 loaded comments

Key moments

  1. 01Story posted

    8/24/2025, 8:02:12 AM

    87d ago

    Step 01
  2. 02First comment

    8/24/2025, 8:33:40 AM

    31m after posting

    Step 02
  3. 03Peak activity

    142 comments in Day 1

    Hottest window of the conversation

    Step 03
  4. 04Latest activity

    9/2/2025, 2:06:16 AM

    78d ago

    Step 04

Generating AI Summary...

Analyzing up to 500 comments to identify key contributors and discussion patterns

Discussion (205 comments)
Showing 160 comments of 205
simonw
87d ago
2 replies
It would be interesting to see copies of this from subsequent years (this is the 2012 edition) to understand how Valve's process has evolved over time.
bira
87d ago
1 reply
This was PR prop
kotaKat
87d ago
Not just PR prop, stale rehashed PR prop reposted time and time again over 13+ years.
mepian
87d ago
I remember reading or hearing somewhere that this was a one-off thing, but I can't remember where.

EDIT: Another comment mentioned Chet Faliszek, he was probably the source.

tstrimple
87d ago
5 replies
Valve hasn’t released anything of note since this has been published. So I guess we should take these as anti patterns. Valve is more of a hat generation company than a game company so it seems like no one should take any game related advice from them.
pjmlp
87d ago
2 replies
I bet when current management leaves, as usual happens in these cases, those that worship Valve and Steam will see yet another big corporation, this if it doesn't eventually get acquired.
scheeseman486
87d ago
3 replies
What management? Gabe doesn't have any direct involvement in the running of the company at this point, in spite of being the majority owner. It's an open question what happens if he leaves or dies but it doesn't seem likely that he'd do anything to intentionally sabotage the company, like sell it off. It's more likely that ownership will transfer to a trusted party or to the employees.
keyringlight
87d ago
1 reply
At this point I think Valve is more likely to be disrupted from an outside influence rather than within, I think a lot of their actions are about keeping the ship steady. If someone does come along as an upstart in a new market as valve did with digital distribution versus retail/physical, the old is unlikely to be instantly irrelevant and obsoleted, and even then you get new markets like mobile appearing over their lifespan where both are healthy side-by-side.
HighGoldstein
87d ago
1 reply
To disrupt Valve's business you'd need an offering as good if not better than Steam, something several companies already tried and failed, and on top of that you need to convince everyone with buy-in to switch to your business, another monumental task. While people are happy with Steam it'll be impossible to challenge Valve as a digital distributor.
pjmlp
87d ago
1 reply
Assuming everyone at current Valve's management stays there forever, as immortals.

People keep forgetting our time is limited and nothing lasts forever.

scheeseman486
85d ago
I thought I made it clear with the rhetorical question, but there is no management at Valve due to it's flat structure. At least not in the traditional sense; it's staff are self organizing.

It's true that entropy will be the end of us all but while there are definitely things that may end Valve, "management" leaving isn't going to the thing that does it. It might be wise to learn about the company you speak so definitively about, I suggest reading the pamplet.

ChocolateGod
87d ago
I would actually be intrigued to know how many companies have shown interest in acquiring Valve over the years that we'll never know about.
pjmlp
87d ago
Whoever takes over, when who is at the wheel is no longer among us, or capable to keep doing their work.

Nothing lasts forever.

BoredPositron
87d ago
1 reply
Why would Gabe give up his controlling stake if he steps down? Valve is a private company.
asimovfan
87d ago
Because he is a mortal?
opan
87d ago
1 reply
Steam Deck and Proton are pretty major, IMO. Even if you exclude the Deck itself for being hardware, SteamOS and all the associated UI/UX is pretty nice.
tstrimple
78d ago
I don't disagree with this at all. But Valve will forever be the company that cannot finish Half Life 3. They are the company who spends WAY more time and engineering effort on selling more fucking hats in TF2 than releasing actual quality games.
Almondsetat
87d ago
1 reply
HL Alyx and Dota 2 aren't of note?
jsheard
87d ago
3 replies
Dota 2 is of note, but that was a pretty safe project being a straight remake of an already popular mod with the mods developer at the helm. Their major titles since 2012 were:

  CS:GO (remake of a remake)
  Dota 2 (remake)
  Artifact (flopped)
  Underlords (flopped)
  Alyx (good)
  Counter-Strike 2 (remake of a remake of a remake)
  Deadlock (early beta, but promising)
They haven't completely lost the sauce, but it's rare to see the old Valve show up these days.
lomase
87d ago
Making remakes old popular mods is not a safe project.
drchickensalad
86d ago
I think you grossly undervalue execution. Ideas are cheap. Most developers would have turned those games into weaker money extracting machines that generate one tenth the love from current players
gverrilla
87d ago
Cs:Go was a 'remake' of cs 1.6, which was the original cs with a lot of changes and updates, but no remake
MarcellusDrum
87d ago
1 reply
Half-Life Alyx, Dota 2, Steam Deck, Index, Proton, CS:GO (released same year as this handbook), and not to mention still dominating with Steam despite the competiton spending hundreds of millions of dollars to not even make a dip in their marketshare.
natebc
87d ago
1 reply
Counter-strike 2 was also just recently released.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Strike_2

Ekaros
87d ago
1 reply
Well, I would categorize that more to major version update than actually new release. Say like new Linux LTS release. Lot of things changed even very deep, but it is basically largely same work.
mry2048
87d ago
It’s a complete reimplementation on a new engine with big changes to the tick system, new versions of all the maps, animations, etc. Not too different to CS:GO release vs CS:S with big expectations comparing it with the previous version.
TulliusCicero
87d ago
1 reply
In addition to the other products mentioned: Deadlock is maybe the best new big budget IP in recent memory, in terms of theme/setting and art style and character design. Particularly after the update a week ago, the game is stylish as hell now. Even the main menu music is a banger: https://youtu.be/WkGDC3idX1E

Now, the game isn't exactly out yet, but it is pretty widely accessible, and the core of the game is just fantastic. They really cooked with this one, especially the movement system.

nvarsj
87d ago
3 replies
I pretty much have the opposite feeling about Deadlock after putting 200+ hrs into it (not that much but enough to understand the game).

There was a recent streamer that said it best: the game design fundamentally punishes you for engaging with other players. Instead, it rewards you for running around the map breaking static entities (boxes, statues, static creeps, etc.). Which is, frankly, boring.

There's just no way imo that will ever be successful in an FPS/shooter. It might work for MOBAs, but I think the idea of a MOBA-first shooter is just never going to get much traction beyond a niche.

Maybe Valve will see the light and significantly change things. I'm not sure. The "open alpha" was also kind of a disaster in killing off the first wave of the player base.

__turbobrew__
86d ago
1 reply
For me I cannot play team based games where you are punished for leaving. Nothing is worse being stuck in a game where you are not having fun and you are forced to keep playing or be punished otherwise.

Also, I am no longer a 20 year old with no responsibilities and sometimes things come up where I would need to leave the game. I guess I am just getting older now and no longer play 20 hours a weeks of video games, but things like Deadlock don’t have appeal.

TulliusCicero
86d ago
1 reply
Being punished for leaving is the standard for almost any competitive team based game these days, because if you don't do that then people leave on a whim and the game is ruined.

> Nothing is worse being stuck in a game where you are not having fun and you are forced to keep playing or be punished otherwise.

It works approximately the same irl for board games or sports. If you just walk off the court in a basketball game because you're not having fun, everyone else will be pissed. Ditto if you just ditch a board game session midway through.

It's funny you mention age, because I have essentially the opposite take. Ditching a match for a game you like because that particular match isn't going well is immature; I'd expect someone older to handle themselves better than someone younger, not throw a fit.

Now of course there are some games where it's fine for people to jump in and out, they're designed around that, but just like with other sorts of games, it's hard to get competitive matches that way.

__turbobrew__
85d ago
2 replies
> It's funny you mention age, because I have essentially the opposite take. Ditching a match for a game you like because that particular match isn't going well is immature; I'd expect someone older to handle themselves better than someone younger, not throw a fit.

There are two things. First, it is not about maturity it is about having other responsibilities in life. If my kid needs something from me I am going to drop the video game and help my kid — it’s called having a dependent for a reason. Second, I have less free time as I get older so why would I spend precious little time I have being socially locked into a situation I am not enjoying?

You seem to be projecting that if someone cannot commit to a competitive activity/sport they are somehow immature, but in reality lots of people cannot or do not want that in their life.

My comment was not saying that Deadlock is a bad game or somehow invalid, my comment is that the type of game Deadlock is does not mesh with my tastes/life.

TulliusCicero
85d ago
1 reply
That's not what I was responding to. Please read what I quoted, that you wrote:

> Nothing is worse being stuck in a game where you are not having fun and you are forced to keep playing or be punished otherwise.

Sure, needing to take care of certain responsibilities is fine, but ditching everyone else in a game because you're temporarily "not having fun"? Yes, that is immature.

__turbobrew__
85d ago
1 reply
> Sure, needing to take care of certain responsibilities is fine, but ditching everyone else in a game because you're temporarily "not having fun"? Yes, that is immature.

That is purely a subjective moral judgement. I can also make a judgment that you projecting moral judgments onto strangers is also immature.

There I did it too, fun…

TulliusCicero
85d ago
Ah, the deflection. A true Internet classic.
tstrimple
78d ago
If you have a kid who needs immediate attention such that you have to drop a multiplayer game you are actively sabotaging your online teammates and deserve to be limited in how you play. I confidently say this as a parent of three children. It's just pure fucking selfishness to join a competitive game where you know you have a high chance of needing to drop. Just play casual lobbies instead where you're not fucking up other people's ability to climb.
TulliusCicero
86d ago
For gameplay, your explanation isn't totally wrong, but it's not totally right either. Deadlock is a MOBA, so yes, there's more to it than fighting other players. Sometimes team fighting or ganking is the right answer, sometimes farming or pushing objectives is the right answer. It depends on the current state of the game, and your own hero/play style.

Personally, I love that kind of depth and complexity, and I would hate for Icefrog to listen to the people pushing for the game to become more simplified and Overwatch-like. We already have Overwatch and Rivals for people who just want to fight all the time, but there's nothing really like Deadlock that combines MOBAs and hero shooters with the mechanical depth that Deadlock has -- especially when you factor in the movement tech.

> There's just no way imo that will ever be successful in an FPS/shooter. It might work for MOBAs, but I think the idea of a MOBA-first shooter is just never going to get much traction beyond a niche.

It's definitely a risky play in some sense, but arguably less risky than engaging a pure MOBA or pure hero shooter directly, since those have already well established, polished entries. That there's nothing really like Deadlock out there is one of its big advantages, if you like Deadlock's gameplay, there's really no alternative.

lomase
87d ago
Deadlock is a MOBA, not a FPS.
j1000
87d ago
1 reply
Anybody working for Valve here? Can somebody confirm how many % percentage of this is BS?
ailbet
86d ago
2 replies
This is a common question from people interviewing at Valve. I was suspect how accurate it was before I joined given how long it's been since it was updated. However, it still 100% represents the culture within Valve. Desks are still on wheels, structure is still completely flat, etc...

It's been on my list of "eventual todos" to make a trivial update to help reinforce that it's still relevant.

__turbobrew__
86d ago
1 reply
How is individual performance evaluated?
ailbet
86d ago
Part 3 of the handbook
cupofjoakim
86d ago
Personally I'm interested in this proposed flatness. I understand that it's the aim, but at the end of the day someone approves vacations, manages budgets for projects and is the person that has to have hard conversations with an employee right? Someone will have higher mandate for hard decisions?
OuterVale
87d ago
1 reply
Translated versions are available here: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/publications

Previous discussion:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3871463 (21 April 2012 | 16 comments)

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8818893 (31 December 2014 | 17 comments)

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9250527 (23 March 2015 | 14 comments)

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12157993 (25 July 2016 | 197 comments)

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17935030 (7 September 2018 | 31 comments)

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33170988 (12 October 2022 | 165 comments)

HelloUsername
87d ago
Some more:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41329274 (23 August 2024 | 112 comments)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26960473 (27 April 2021 | 7 comments)

piker
87d ago
3 replies
Surprising amount of discussion on work/life balance and kids/family for a game dev. Is Valve known for this or is it just relative?
scrollaway
87d ago
1 reply
Valve is not an ordinary company. They make a ton of money, have no outside investment, reinvest everything internally on R&D and keep very small. On top of that, they run completely flat management.

They're the idealized version of what a small company making a shitton of cash would be. They can afford plenty in terms of work-life balance.

keyringlight
86d ago
Even at the start they were unusual as they were funded by Microsoft millionaires, and presumably had little pressure to release before "when it's done", and HL1 being a huge hit started the ball rolling allowing them to acquire the team fortress and counter-strike mod teams, picking up even more momentum.
Hamuko
87d ago
3 replies
Arguably by 2012, Valve was already transitioning out of the game development business and into the services business. Team Fortress 2 was already out, Left 4 Dead 2 was already out, Portal 2 was already out, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive came out in the same year, and Dota 2 came out the next year. Really the only things that have been made since that period are Half-Life: Alyx (2020), Counter-Strike 2 (2023) and Deadlock (TBA).
nvarsj
87d ago
2 replies
Everyone forgets about Artifact :).
Hamuko
87d ago
I think even Valve would prefer you to forget about it.
ThatPlayer
87d ago
Also Underlords.
Strom
87d ago
They didn't transition out of game development. Dota 2 was under heavy development all these years after it "came out". It was only when Deadlock started heavy development that Dota 2 was winding down.
JackMorgan
87d ago
Dota Underlords came out since then, which is a brilliant game that they effectively abandoned / moved on to Deadlock.
SXX
87d ago
Gamedev is just very poor industry. Think of your usual FAANG salary and divide it by 5. Or just any random software engineer job and devide salary by 2. There are companies like Epic Games that pay competetive salaries, but they are few.

Gamedev is also very stressful industy because both constant crunches and job instability. So you not only paid worse, but you'll work 2-3 times more that average SWE. And often fired when project is complete regardless of success.

So working at Valve is somewhat like a pipe dream for many people in the game industry. Especially because whole Valve is under 500 people which is like 10-20 times less people than work for Epic, Ubisoft or EA.

Source: I work in indie game company.

LauraMedia
87d ago
8 replies
Chet Faliszek, writer for games like Half-Life and the lead writer for Portal/Portal 2 has since confirmed that this handbook was never given to employees. It was created and released as part of advertising them as an employer.
supriyo-biswas
87d ago
5 replies
It's hard to believe that the principles outlined here weren't at least briefly followed when it's featured on their website too: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/publications, but I'd be an open to a source which substantiates your claim.

However, non-hierarchical structures are often open to manipulation and land-grabbing (see Tyranny of Structurelessness, etc.) so I am also skeptical that a company may have continued with this practice.

moomin
87d ago
6 replies
At least one former employee has confirmed that exactly the problems you are describing were a problem at Valve.

https://www.wired.com/2013/07/wireduk-valve-jeri-ellsworth/

FatalLogic
87d ago
4 replies
>"they pretty much killed off our project.” That project was CastAR — augmented reality glasses which Jeri Ellsworth is now working on as a separate project, having been handed the legal rights to do so by Valve.

But how many billion-dollar companies would do that? Just give the rights to the ex-employees? I think most other companies would have not. So, in that sense, Valve is unusual, even if it's not the oranizational utopia that was promised.

After she left Valve, she and partners did get at least $15 million funding from outside investors to develop the AR technology, but after several years of trying, it didn't work out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CastAR

moomin
87d ago
3 replies
Unfortunately, no-one’s investment in AR or VR has worked out. Even the “winner” (Oculus/Meta) has found the market to be disappointingly small.
ralphc
87d ago
1 reply
There's a "Mega Replay" store near where I live, it has second-hand electronics, games and DVDs. The biggest section in electronics is the VR goggles, a lot of people have given up on them.
cubefox
86d ago
3 replies
I tried VR once, with a bunch of short 360° documentaries and video games like Beat Saber and Half Life Alyx. It was incredible, far beyond any immersion one could ever create on a conventional screen, even with the best ray tracing in the world.

I don't really understand why VR helmets they aren't more successful. My first guess is that any console needs exclusive high-profile games to be successful, and producing many exclusive high-profile Meta Quest games is probably too expensive for current market adoption. A chicken-egg problem.

Or maybe the hardware price isn't low enough currently. The original Game Boy was successful with its low price despite its terrible screen. The Game Boy Color chipset was very underpowered compared to the competition but again more affordable.

matthewfcarlson
86d ago
1 reply
As some with a gaming PC, a few VR headsets, and a steam deck, I find myself reaching for the steam deck most often. It’s a good enough experience and easy to just turn on and play. The friction to getting the VR headset out is surprisingly high so it really only happens when I’m playing with a friend, which only three friends have headsets. So it just ends up not happening.
cubefox
86d ago
2 replies
I don't quite understand this. The friction on ordinary desktop PC gaming is also fairly high. I can't imagine playing on Quest 2 or 3 is significantly more complicated. Also, if you are playing a large RPG (like Asgards Wrath 2), a few minutes of setup won't make much of a difference in playing time. I agree it's a different issue for more casual games.

I think the more relevant difference is that there are vastly more (and therefore: better) PC games than VR games.

gjsman-1000
86d ago
I think there’s a very simple explaination actually.

Most people psychologically don’t like wearing or carrying technology unless there’s a really good reason. Most people also don’t like psychologically feeling isolated.

VR doesn’t have a good reason, and makes you feel isolated. No further rationale is necessary.

ikr678
86d ago
The only people I know who purchased VR & regularly used it were weathly, childless and had enough spare space in their house to dedicate to it. Yes, you can blow $$$ on a pc but the footprint of a pc is much smaller (a desk+ chair against a wall) vs how much clear floor space they had set aside for VR.

I personally believe that VR of the arm swinging/interactive variety will never be widely adopted due to the cost of real estate in the tech savvy, trend-setting consumer population centers.

likpok
86d ago
1 reply
VR is immersive, but it’s hard to fit in to life and there’s a limited array of content available. You can easily use a computer, watch TV or play video games while still being somewhat present with the people around you in reality. VR makes that impossible: you cannot see them, and they cannot see what you see (so even the experience of watching someone play is gone). Furthermore, this makes the experience hard to share — sharing it requires doing that as a whole activity, an activity which only one person can participate in.

Compare with setting up a home theater and having people over to watch a movie, or split screen gaming.

After all that you run into the limited content availability and, as you noted, the high price.

I do wonder why Meta hasn’t done something like license Skyrim or GTA for the quest. It shouldn’t be too expensive compared with the other investments, and would bring over some solidly popular (and big!) content.

cubefox
86d ago
Regarding the last point, unfortunately most games can't really be ported to VR, they need to be specifically developed for it.
vintermann
86d ago
The terrible screen of the Gameboy didn't make you physically sick.
const_cast
86d ago
1 reply
Well that's because AR and VR are strictly worse for most use cases as compared to traditional human computer interfaces.

The mouse, keyboard, and monitor is pretty much just right. Highly productive, you can go super fast, with extreme information density.

VR and AR are obviously much slower to navigate because physical worlds are slow to navigate and that's what they're mimicing. We might assume a 3D world has more information density than a 2D screen... But 90% of the time it doesn't. I don't have eyes on the back of my head. And, usually, I'm going to be staring at a 2D thing.

ghaff
86d ago
1 reply
As I've written before, I can imagine an essentially science-fictional version of AR being potentially interesting. Wear normal looking classes or contacts, look at something, and immediately get information through some subtle communications mechanism to be determined.

VR has basically been for niche high-end gamers. I can imagine a jet flighter simulation might be good for VR but I'm not even sure that's such a thing these days. One can imagine other uses like virtual exploration but it hasn't been that interesting and a big monitor works pretty well as an alternative.

fknorangesite
85d ago
> I can imagine a jet flighter simulation might be good for VR but I'm not even sure that's such a thing these days.

Oh people absolutely use it for this and it is an excellent use case - mainly because you stay seated.

But yeah. Pretty niche.

doublerabbit
86d ago
1 reply
I only have 2mb ADSL, each world on VR Chat is something about 300mb+ in size not including VR Avatars. I'll join a world with folk, and they'll jump worlds before anythings loaded.

I wear glasses so I have to use special lenses to enable me to see in-game. These costed an addition 150 euros.

The XREAL Air 2 look appealing but I am unable to buy inserts for. This make's them useless to me.

> "While we plan to offer lenses for the Air 2, its updated frame design makes self-assembly of the lenses too difficult"

If where we lived in a fantasy world where everyone had a 10Gbit connections, perfect eyeballs. Yeah, it'd be great tech, practical too. But those without are left out like left-handed folk.

My Valve Index is sitting untouched behind me. I bought this in 2021, Why can't companies offer a version for those with a prescription? One size fit's all doesn't work here.

nolist_policy
80d ago
Maybe try VRchat standalone on the Quest. World's are limited at 100mb there.
justin66
87d ago
1 reply
That's a pretty incomplete telling of the story. Tilt Five is in business and selling the product after the founders bought the tech back from CastAR (after the VC people ran it into the ground).
FatalLogic
86d ago
I can't edit my comment now, but here's a good review of the Tilt Five

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbjjCn1zJq8

TheAmazingRace
86d ago
I'll be honest. Jeri did a ton of whining when she didn't get her way when Valve decided to part ways with her. It was ultimately a business decision for them to abandon AR, and she took it too personally. She is very good at hardware and a wicked smart engineer, but she should be thankful she was able to keep the rights to everything when she left Valve.
brainzap
86d ago
it lives on as Tilt Five
pstuart
87d ago
1 reply
side note: Jeri Ellsworth is a rockstar engineer.
moomin
87d ago
I know someone who’s worked with her and yes, “talented” is an understatement.
mcosta
86d ago
That article is 12 years old. In those days he had hope for a Half Life 3.
rvnx
87d ago
It is easy to imagine that Gabe is a talented tyrant like Steve Jobs used to be.
exmadscientist
87d ago
It seems their hardware teams have a particular problem with this. I'm in the area, know many people in their orbit, and they have a really poor reputation, so I knew to be cautious, but when I interviewed with them a while back I was really surprised at how poorly it was organized. I don't want to say much more publicly, but they sure earned their reputation.
monkeyelite
87d ago
2 replies
Also when you have a lot of money you can afford to be inefficient
diggan
87d ago
1 reply
Also, sometimes you need to first be a bit inefficient and lax in order to later come up with really good ideas and solutions.
jodleif
87d ago
3 replies
IMO it’s really hard to argue with the quality valve software is putting out. I can’t really name a game that isn’t considered a must play that they’ve made
remedan
87d ago
1 reply
Artifact flopped really hard.
duskwuff
86d ago
Dota Underlords wasn't exactly a success either.
account42
86d ago
It's only hard to argue because that's a purely subjective opinion.
ndriscoll
87d ago
I too thought Ricochet was a blast and an underrated must play. There are dozens of us!
holyknight
87d ago
1 reply
how do you come up to this conclusion? Valve has by far the most revenue by employee from all the big players. They seem to be the most efficient at what they do.
monkeyelite
87d ago
They hold a valuable resource developed from prior years of hard work. See also Google search.

Do you think Valve was operating this way when they were trying to make their first money on half-life?

asveikau
86d ago
1 reply
> (see Tyranny of Structurelessness, etc.) so I am also skeptical that a company may have continued with this practice

I have always been disappointed with people making claims that explicitly imposed bad hierarchy is inevitable, because of a vague complaint about implicit hierarchy.

It feels like they are using this to justify imposing a bad hierarchy from the top down, for the benefit of the people at the top of said imposed hierarchy. Like when you have a well-functioning team with a very weak explicit hierarchy, and the people at the top introduce a bunch of bad managers. They will tell you it was inevitable. There's no way the thing you saw working well could continue to work well. Because that lack of bad managers was actually working just as poorly, you see. In fact it was much worse.

someguyorother
86d ago
1 reply
I don't think that's people who refer to Tyranny of Structurelessness mean.

At least I read it more as that you can't just declare 'there be no hierarchy here' and be done. Unless you carefully engineer the system, the implicit hierarchy will reclaim the void and, all else equal, an implicit hierarchy is harder to undo because it isn't supposed to exist.

In political terms: if all you do is kick the ruler out, you may get a corrupt patronage network instead of democracy. Actual equality doesn't come from just the absence of strong explicit hierarchy; it requires proper institutional design.

asveikau
85d ago
And that argument is a bad faith smearing of less centralized organization structures. That is 100% how I have seen it used. The results tend to be awful.

As a society, we have codified "business douche" structures as inevitable. It is fair to ask who benefits from this. Usually it's about people installing themselves as the top of the hierarchy, hoarding money, power, and status.

account42
86d ago
It wouldn't be a good ad if it was entirely contrary to their company culture. But it's pretty obviously a very idealized view of it.
egometry
84d ago
Fascinating! First time seeing/reading Tyranny of Structurelessness

Was Pivotal Labs built with this in mind? A lot of their core principals seem to overlap with with seven principals prposed at the end (https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm for the curious)

rendaw
87d ago
1 reply
Is it meaningfully different if it's not given to employees but given to everyone before they become an employee?

I'd agree it's a meaningful distinction if the company wasn't actually as written... but it sounds like everything in there is accurate?

monkeyelite
87d ago
1 reply
Propaganda isn’t false - and wasn’t always pejorative. It’s a selection of true things arranged to tell an appealing story.
t-3
87d ago
The connotation of propaganda as being false or misleading is itself the result of propaganda of the most subtle and sophisticated level.
rjzzleep
87d ago
1 reply
Valve has hired a bunch of FAANG engineers that brought their own toxic hiring practices to Valve. It's only a matter of time before those people promote their culture in that organization if they haven't done so already.
ChocolateGod
87d ago
1 reply
What culture?
donperignon
86d ago
Corporate bullshit culture. Hell on earth. If you have worked in one big tech organization then you know.
monkeyelite
87d ago
1 reply
It was not as obvious when it first came out as we were less familiar with stealth marketing.

When smart people say ads don’t work on them - this is a counterexample. It’s just that different groups respond to different branding. And this was highly tuned to Reddit interests.

account42
86d ago
It was pretty obvious to many of us.
noduerme
87d ago
1 reply
It's a great pitch. Sounds like a utopia.
dafelst
86d ago
1 reply
I have friends that work there, it is a great place to work, but not without it's problems.
AndyNemmity
86d ago
of course there are problems, there always will be. no solution will ever remove them, but the trade offs seem massively better.
raincole
87d ago
2 replies
Source?

This comment is literally the first search result of "Chet Faliszek Valve employee handbook" for me. I've waded through several pages and haven't found a credible source of him saying that.

NatKarmios
87d ago
I don't have the precise link to hand (sorry) but Chet posts frequently on TikTok, I recall seeing him say this.
LauraMedia
86d ago
I'm sorry I can't provide you with one right now. Chet talks a lot about various things on his Tiktok, the story how he wrote this handbook as a recruitment marketing tool was one of the hundreds upon hundreds of things and Tiktok's search is utterly useless sadly.

That being said, I don't want to say it is a bad thing or entirely wrong. It is of course a brushed up glorified version that certainly took a thing or two from their real experience working at Valve, but it was not used as an onboarding tool until it was published (and to my knowledge, isn't used nowadays as they have since changed their internal team composition since Half-Life Alyx was released).

hnthrowaway_398
86d ago
It was given to employees, but it was created as a recruiting tool. That's why they posted it on their website after it 'leaked' (with some deliberate effort to cause that to happen).
neilv
86d ago
The "Half Life Snacks" video employer advertising was brilliant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEi3U77b6yE
bob1029
87d ago
5 replies
Valve gets a lot of heat for slowing down on first party gaming content, but I think Steam has been a net positive for the gaming community. There are certainly some cases where the accessibility has created "noise" and other trouble, but overall I think this is a good thing. Their 30% cut is absolutely justified once you start looking into everything they do for you as a developer and the market that you have access to. It is a lot easier to pay that kind of fee when you don't feel like your technology partners actively hate the fact that you merely exist.

Steam is still like what Netflix used to be. You have pretty much everything you care about in one place. Even big monster AAA developers like EA have given up and put their content on the platform. If I had to pick between having HL3 and a coherent gaming ecosystem, I'd pick the latter.

andyferris
87d ago
5 replies
It interests me that it needs to be an "or".

A HL3 team could essentially function as an independent studio using the Steam platform, with some funding thrown from Valve. Assuming the ROI is positive what exactly is holding them back?

ekianjo
87d ago
1 reply
> Assuming the ROI is positive what exactly is holding them back?

The Google problem where every project that is not Search has a much worse ROI.

jsheard
87d ago
1 reply
Yep, and that applies to Valve at two levels because Steam dwarfs the ROI of their games, and their forever-games like Counter Strike dwarf the ROI of any singleplayer game they'd ever be able to make. It's a miracle they even got Alyx out of the door, that was a special case since it was part of their larger VR initiative.
ekianjo
87d ago
And Alyx was probably a huge failure, ROI wise, because nobody buys VR headsets. I know, not "nobody", but by far and large it has remained a super niche market.
wiseowise
87d ago
> Assuming the ROI is positive what exactly is holding them back?

Absurd expectations.

davidbanham
87d ago
That’s what they did for CS:GO, developed by Hidden Path.
account42
86d ago
They did try that, Episode 4 was being developed by Arkane. Unfortunately 4 comes after 3 which never happened.
Lanolderen
87d ago
They want it to be good? Throwing it at a third party sounds like a good way to get a meh game and then have to release it since you've already spent X$ on it.
Panzer04
87d ago
2 replies
The other things is steam doesn't constrain competition (afaik? Open to being wrong but this is how I'd understood it). Devs can sell their own games, games can be on other platforms, etc.

Despite that gamers think it's worth the convenience and utilities steam provides to keep shopping there.

Steam isn't dominant because it's strangling competition like the app store and similar. People can trivially download alternatives, but they choose steam anyway.

ThatPlayer
87d ago
1 reply
Steam is currently being sued by Wolfire for being anti-competitive by allegedly having a "platform most-favored-nations" clause. Preventing games on other platforms from being priced lower.

According to the developer:

> [Valve] would remove Overgrowth from Steam if I allowed it to be sold at a lower price anywhere, even from my own website without Steam keys and without Steam’s DRM.

> I believe that other developers who charged lower prices on other stores have been contacted by Valve, telling them that their games will be removed from Steam if they did not raise their prices on competing stores.

https://www.wolfire.com/blog/2021/05/Regarding-the-Valve-cla...

Hikikomori
87d ago
1 reply
Its not true. You're allowed to sell for lower elsewhere, but you can't sell steam keys for a lower price than steam store. So if you create a version of your game that works without steam you can sell that for a lower price.
FatalLogic
87d ago
In the class action case[0], which was allowed to go forward by the court last year, it is claimed that Valve told someone:

"This includes communications from Valve that “‘the price on Steam [must be] competitive with where it’s being sold elsewhere’” and that Valve “‘wouldn’t be OK with selling games on Steam if they are available at better prices on other stores, even if they didn’t use Steam keys.’” Dkt. No. 343 ¶ 158, 160 (quoting emails produced at VALVE_ANT_0598921, 0605087). "

(This is a new case, not the 2021 suit, which was rejected by the court, then amended and refiled, later with an additional plaintiff added)

[0]https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.29...

Cyph0n
87d ago
Yet for some reason, people still use Steam as a “gotcha” to justify why Apple’s terms are fair.

But as you’ve hinted at, Steam is very different from the iOS App Store because it is competing organically with other app stores on Windows. Steam does not control Windows or the hardware, so it cannot “force” itself to be the only option to download games on Windows.

And even when it does have full control over the platform and HW (Steam Deck), it’s just a light wrapper around a standard Linux distro (Arch).

bsjaux628
87d ago
1 reply
Do we also point out being the first to implement DRM and erode digital ownership, being the first to tie game installation to a platform client, creating micro transactions or being fine with child gambling (CS skins) in the net negatives, or are we not allowed to criticize Lord Gabel today?
terribleperson
87d ago
The gambling is the only thing I think you can reasonably attack them for. They didn't create microtransactions, those had already been figured out in Korea. The DRM was necessary for Steam to be palatable to publishers (and it's always been more of a pro-forma thing than a real attempt at DRM like Denuvo), and a world without Steam would absolutely have seen per-publisher e-shops that would also have DRM. Tying game installation to a game client... again, that was a 'when' not an 'if', and they weren't even the first. If I recall, you had to install a client to install Wild Tangent games. The client was also, arguably, malware.
AddLightness
87d ago
9 replies
I'm very scared about the future though. What happens when Gabe is gone? The entire PC Gaming industry is essentially locked in to a single platform. If Steam decided to charge $10/mo people have so much invested into their libraries they would likely do it. What about $20 or $30 per month?

I'm not sure why Steam always seems to be exempt from the "perils of digital ownership" arguments

Hendrikto
87d ago
5 replies
> I'm not sure why Steam always seems to be exempt from the "perils of digital ownership" arguments

Because they have been consistently good citizens for more than 2 decades. They built a reputation. Something other companies are eager to piss away at the first opportunity to sell out or squeeze their customers.

It’s not surprising that Valve is successful and trusted with this approach. What is surprising is that it is apparently so incredibly hard for other companies to understand this very simple fact.

1. Build a good product.

2. Consistently act in good faith.

3. Profit.

sarchertech
87d ago
1 reply
Which is a great way to run a business that you care about owning for a long time.

But as a consumer you have to think about what happens when leadership changes—PE buys them and starts reputation mining.

It takes a while to burn through the good will and for a few years you can make a lot more money off of that than you can continuing thing as usual.

Aeolun
86d ago
2 replies
You think Gabe will sell to PE? You need someone willing to sell to be able to buy something.

I’m betting that won’t happen, and that the next BDFL is not going to run the thing into the ground fast enough for it to matter to me.

gjsman-1000
86d ago
2 replies
Dude, Gabe could get hit by a bus tomorrow, and all it takes is for 0.2% of Steam shares to be given to a secondary person, for any reason, due to a legal order (as he owns only 50.1%) to cause the takeover.

Valve is also facing a class action lawsuit for anticompetitive practices. If they lose, even though they will almost certainly survive, watch the tables flip upside down fast.

ChoGGi
86d ago
I thought valve was a private company with no VC money? How do you know share ratios?

I am genuinely asking, as I am curious.

bigyabai
86d ago
That would be very distressing, but the important things (eg. Proton, Gamescope, OpenXR) they built would live on in their legacy. Plus, the PC games industry can survive just fine without Valve - but Valve can't survive without the support of PC gamers. Anyone succeeding Gabe would have to accept that, or squander what little value their shares possess.

Products like the Steam Deck or Steam Controller don't need any Valve software to play games. Valve knows a post-Steam world will exist one day, and they're fine with that. From a consumer standpoint, I respect that.

sarchertech
86d ago
No, but his heirs might.
xandrius
87d ago
Still a for-profit company, wouldn't bet on this, even though I'd love it to be like this (that companies who have been doing good will continue to do good instead of increasing their profits). Been burnt too many times.
pjmlp
86d ago
I bet those are the same folks that believed on the "Do no evil" marketing, or Microsoft <3 FOSS.
jerf
86d ago
The dominant business school philosophy in the West is that 1. any reputation you have with your customers is a monetary asset and 2. therefore you should sell it for profit because it's greater than the long term expected monetary value according to a simple time-value of money calculation, especially because of the lag before your customers figure out you've sold them out.

#1 on its own isn't so bad, you should indeed treat reputation as a valuable asset, but the way their style of logic invariably jumps to "and therefore you should sell, sell, sell it!" is the source of the problems we see. Especially because they're likely to jump jobs before the consequences occur. We really ought to have a culture of looking askance at executives and decision makers who never spend more than 2 years at a job, rather than celebrating them. If they've never had to live with the effects of their decisions they're really just a fresh-out-of-college person with 10 instances of the same two years of experience.

Thaxll
86d ago
30% cut and the shit they do with CS ( fomo, gambling ect .. ) they're not a good citizen.
squigz
87d ago
1 reply
> I'm not sure why Steam always seems to be exempt from the "perils of digital ownership" arguments

They're not, really, but they've given us little reason to distrust them.

I'm also fairly confident there would be some fun legal stuff going on if Steam tried that. People have thousands - tens of thousands - of dollars worth of stuff on Steam. That isn't really the same as, say, having to watch ads even after paying for a subscription.

vintermann
86d ago
Also, let's say we decided to not trust Steam because all corporations cash in on their goodwill eventually. What would be the alternative?
xandrius
87d ago
2 replies
At that point I'd feel entitled to keep the games I bought by pirating them.
kaashif
86d ago
1 reply
It doesn't matter how entitled we think we are, pirating won't give us access to e.g. online play or Steam Workshop, which are critical to many games.
xandrius
86d ago
Many but far from most. And part of the services provided by Steam is the multiplayer experience, so you definitely cannot expect to keep that without paying Steam, unless the developers want that too.
martin-t
86d ago
This is the right approach. I only buy games if the money goes to the original creators, not some parasitic company who bought the "IP".
newsclues
87d ago
1 reply
Microsoft/xBox are waiting to buy Valve.
pjmlp
86d ago
1 reply
I wouldn't be surprised, especially after eventually there is a management change.

Most folks aren't keeping tabs on how many studios Microsoft nowadays owns as publisher, even moreso after the ABK deal.

jayd16
86d ago
Easier to track the ones they don't own and that's almost not a joke.
raron
86d ago
1 reply
People would go back to piracy.

Exactly as that famous quote says, currently Steam is the better product, but if Valve would go rogue, that could change easily.

> If Steam decided to charge $10/mo

If you think about games already purchased I suspect that would be illegal in many parts of the world.

paulryanrogers
86d ago
Considering how quickly new games become unplayable on PC, it amazes that current circumstances pass as legal. StopKillingGames.com
markus_zhang
87d ago
I’d just quietly turn to GoG and download all of my games just in case. But anyway I’m no longer that interested in games now. Reality is more challenging and fun.
jader201
86d ago
I’ve already received 95% of the value from the game library I have on Steam.

Worst case, if I lose access to all of them, whether by choice or by force (they go under), there are other options of obtaining (most of) the same games, and that’s even if I’m interested in playing them again.

Most of the games I really care about, I probably already have on other platforms anyway, in addition to or instead of Steam.

vikingerik
86d ago
It's not exempt. I don't trust Steam long term and so don't spend any significant money on it. I only ever buy cheap games for like $8 or less, where I know I'll get that much worth of gameplay in a short time frame and it won't bother me if the platform ever later enshittifies.

Gabe says that the platform will fail-open if ever necessary, that it would revert to offline DRMless functionality. I believe that he has that intention, but the realities of operating from receivership or assimilation by Microsoft would likely be very different.

brainzap
86d ago
the same as always happens :)
SXX
87d ago
As consumer I very much agree with you, but as game developer 30% is abysmal amount of money. Imagine you're indie developer or owner of a small 3-10 people studio that finally released reasonably successful game:

  1 - Let's say you invested $100,000 of your own money for vertical slice and managed to find a publisher to give you $200,000 to complete the game.
  2 - Ignore that you had some failed games before, but this time you let's say sold 100,000 copies for $10 each average. 100k sold is a big success really.
But here is the math:

  1 - Valve got $1,000,000 as gross revenue for 100,000 sales.
  2 - Usually 16% is VAT and immenient refunds. So now $840,000 left.
  3 - Now Valve took their 30% cut. $588,000 left.
  4 - Now your publisher took $200,000 to recoup invested money. $388,000 left.
  5 - Now publisher split remaining $388,000 by honest 50/50.
Now your company sold 100,000 copies of a game, but only get $194,000 gross income as royalties. And if you will make any profit you'll likely pay at least 20% corporate or divident taxes so yeah at best your profit gonna be $155,000.

So you did all the work, somehow managed to fund it, worked on game for a year and got $155,000 while Valve made $252,000 for payment processing and CDN. Steam do not provide marketing - it only boost already successful products.

PS: This is best case scenario. Usually your publisher will also recoup whatever expenses they had on their end for marketing and whatever.

lambdadelirium
87d ago
Yeah, from 2012, we've seen this ages ago
exitb
87d ago
(2012)
fullsend
87d ago
"We are the priests who maintain the holy money printer called Steam for our lordship, first of his name Gabe Newell, so that he may purchase fleets of yachts. Don't rock the boat by hiring someone who doesn't get it." They could have said it like this with a lot less bullshit. And Silicon Valley could learn a lot from this company.

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