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Postedabout 1 month ago
Facts: there's abundance of testimony that would secure conviction in court regarding abductions, encounters (of variosu "kinds"), and "multi-sensor data".
Truth is, it goes back centuries, before we could concievably have "RE'd" (reverse-engineered) anything similar. So there has to be something external to our current human civilization (not so surprising, how can you explain how megalithic 100-ton bricks structures were build by "primitives").
Yes, this is "provocative" (perhaps) for some on HN. That's the point. not adversarial, but simply to "provoke" a thought - rather, a question - "what is" the nature of reality? The existence of a "higher"/superior/more technological sentient intelligence interacting with us and our planet is a natural pairing with that question.
Belief is important. Because, your personal experience constitutes, for others, a belief. And that's much of the "evidence" we have.
Trend seems clear in gestalt: disclsoure is coming. So I ask here to take the pulse of this "intellectual/technical/curious/secular" (corase categroties) community. Do you believe this is real? If so, why? If not, why not?
If we were to get "DISCLOSURE" (ie, the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true) woudl your ontology/worldview be "shattered" or "robust", or "otehr"?
*why so many "airquotes"? I recognize the plurality of meanings and layers of baggage associated with different terms. THe air-quotes are simply a glib nod to such multiplicity. Take as such, s'il vous plais.
Basically this post is to serve as a historical marker for taking the temperature of a significant collective in the "pre-disclosure" era. So this is your chance to record your official viewpoint, before it all comes down. What you say?
I am very interested.
No synthesized answer yet. Check the discussion below.
> the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true
Stating the existence of aliens is not unequivocal or based in reality, even if a government does it. Don't forget that Russia claimed to cure cancer a few years ago, we've yet to see how unequivocally true that is in reality.
> If we were to get "DISCLOSURE" (ie, the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true) woudl your ontology/worldview be "shattered" or "robust", or "otehr"?
Such disclosure all by itself would mean nothing to me. The evidence, if any, to support the assertion would mean a lot. I don't think it would affect my worldview at all, but that may be one of those "you don't really know unless it happens" things.
Real evidence isn't dependent on the source. It can be evaluated objectively.
> if you don't have experience yourself, no matter what external "proof", you may not believe it. Which is fine, and valid I think.
I disagree, really. This, along with the opposite (believing in things despite the lack of evidence) are both positions rooted in fantasy rather than reality.
The opposite, actually.
> what is happening?
I'm not exactly sure how to answer this question because I'm not sure what you're referring to. But taking the question generally, I think what is happening is that people see things they can't identify and are speculating about what they saw. Maybe they saw aliens, maybe not, but it's essentially impossible to tell from the reports themselves.
> and what do you believe?
I believe that I don't know.
However, while aliens might be visiting the Earth, it seems to me that the odds of that being the case are so tiny that "aliens" shouldn't be the first thing we think of.
I believe basic alien life will be discovered in the next few decades.
I believe it's possible that basic alien life has maybe made it to Earth aboard meteorites.
I do not believe intelligent aliens have visited Earth.
I never saw aliens, alien technology, or evidence thereof in my time in the Nevada desert.
- Didn't affect the atmosphere in any way. - Had all their buildings were recorded as being built by a people we know much about in specific timelines we know much about, which aligns with archeological artifacts. - Made sure none of their lithics stayed. - Used no fuel source. - Did no mining of any kind. - Never used anything but stone and paper machete for building (because even wood structures leave identifiable patterns for potentially thousands of years). - Only used that stone for a couple buildings, which they planned for the cultures that didn't exist to use intimately. - Had their bones dissolved without a trace.
All we have to do is remove any type of evidence-based science and anything is possible!
It's not certain that much knowledge has been lost, although much of it is in "endangered" status of preservation. There's a kind of silk netting made from the hairlike tufts of a certain species of clams, only practiced by two people IIRC.
Some lost knowledge is being rediscovered. A well-known example is making Damascus steel; it's now so ordinary you can order it online.
And, yes, I feel confident that with a few weeks, a rope, and a really good reason - almost any American could strap a horse to a buggy. It's not rocket science and countless humans have done it before.
How can you explain we can today build structures that are 800m tall or reroute rivers?
Honestly, good ol human craftsmanship multiplied by available labour combined with ’basic’ geometry gets you really, really far.
Industrial processes don’t require individual craftmanship because it does not scale with the speed and velocity required by markets and capital. Hence if you don’t actually care about building stuff you may think people unassisted with industrial machinery would be much more incapable than they really are.
Humans are friggin talented.
My opinion is that said structures are made by humans - a function of basic human psychology, times population, time surrounding available resources. You don’t need to add alien intelligences to the equation.
And aliens per your description - not that interested really because it sounds more like religious conspiracy theories than something actually profoun.
I’m pretty sure there’s life out there (i mean basic chemistry right) but I’m not so sure if it’s anything that would travel here intentionally or that it would have anything to say to us.
I would be happy to be wrong! That’s the most interesting outcome always.
They float the stones from the quarry. Then prepare a plum surface using water, which lays perfectly flat at rest. They measured out a height with a replica-sized reed. Then they use taught twine to chalk the mark. Finally, you pour hard sand on the chalk line and use ropes back and forth in the groove to grind into the soft stone.
It takes time, but it's a process so simple a child can learn it in a day. And then you apply the scale of having a city of adult laborers just as smart (though not as learned - there's a difference) doing it for years and years. Congrats, the rocks stack into a stable shape.
And it was done multiple times and the history even recorded for some!
Then, a long time goes by and all the structures built out of other material decay. All the structures not stacked in the most stable shape fall down. And all the structures not important and out-of-date with modern ventilation or security or needs are intentionally replaced. Now you only have the special building, which some folk weirdly worship or make conspiracies about.
So many logical fallacies and biases go into this, it's all incredibly frustrating. And to see how this beautiful, connecting history we share is warped. To see simple human cleverness that proves how we are fundamentally the same as those who came before us, completely cast aside. It's just... GAH!
The men and women who lived when those structures were built were just as intelligent as you! Your capacity for knowledge, your curiosity, your ingenuity - all in the same proportions! They were not "primitives" or "cave people". They were smart human beings who built cool shit!
The most astounding thing about the millenia old megastructures is the instant human connection it creates across the vast stretches of time.
They are not alien. They are deeply familiar.
The timespan of the whole of Humanity will be just a mere blip in the billions of years the universe will exist.
The universe is unimaginably big.
The spotlight effect is strong here.
There is likely hundreds or thousands of isolated alien worlds in the galaxy, the is no point in getting to them just because they they are alive, because of the next problem - it is absolutely mind boggling what amount of energy and technological advances are mandatory to even short interstellar travel. If you can solve them all, your civilization are practically gods. Why would they concern themselves with some early stage civilization, to which they must travel for millennia in an iron box? This would also mean they have solve immortality btw, or they would all die in transit.
I hope they are visiting. And I hope they are smart enough never to provide compelling evidence of their presence.
'testimony' as in 'statements from people' should not nearly be enough to convince a court. Pretty sure there are also many testimonies that confirm the existence of trolls, elf's, the devil, reincarnation, angels, big foot, Loch Ness monster, etc.
I am certain that if I go to the police blaming someone of something bad then even if my story is very very detailed, without any other (!) evidence the other person will not be convicted.
> Where we draw the line?
By requiring more evidence :) Just as an example: it is funny that despite camera’s being ubiquitous nowadays, all video evidence of aliens, big foot, ghosts, etc is very limited and always vague.
There's a really good chance that the speed of light is the universal speed limit. If that's the case, then interstellar travel isn't going to be worth it for resources because the time and energy it takes to do it will almost certainly eclipse what you're going to gain from the trip. Especially if that trip is going to take thousands/millions of years.
The reality is that if you have the energy and resources to move a significant population to another star system, you're going to have to solve permanent space habitation; and if you did that, why the hell do you need to go anywhere?
"Shits and giggles" just doesn't seem like much of a reason to load the next 300 generations of your family into an interstellar RV.
Throw in some sci-fi mumbo jumbo with fringe theories that require matter that doesn't exist and defies causality as we understand it, and apparently that requirement goes away for some otherwise intelligent people.
As a human, you think anyone has to “get up and walk around.” 99.99% of their population never leave their embryonic sac. I don’t want to freak you out, that’s just how they are. They spend their whole lives interacting through their minds and technology.
So yes, all of their generations are packed in an “RV” and yes, they do what they do for as humans say “shits and giggles. What else would a long lived life form who has conquered perpetual space habitation do with their time? Mass produce consume? Start wars? That is for impatient Man.
The greys were actually traveling from outward of the galactic disc toward the Pleiades cluster. They only noticed Earth (an otherwise unassuming system) on account of its unusual radiological signatures. Other than Earth being a beautiful gem, the Plaidian star cradle looks much more interesting from afar. Arguable.
There is so much more, and I hope those stories come to you. I did not make these things up, I heard the fragments of stories in the decades before the Internet was a thing, and I only became a part of this drama when my world was deprived from me. To be condemned is the surest way to Power, for those who cannot help but reach for mastery of their own destinies.
Those comfortable in the conveniences of modern prosperity, the lie that is America, want their curiosity to be without risk to their certainties.
What can I say that you might want to hear, yet will do you no good?
The closest known civilization near us is ~124 light years away. They are sad, a civilizing stuck for thousands of years in a proto third world level. Their muddy ball of a world, slightly larger and more massive than Mars has no seasons. They will never in a million years achieve radio communications let alone space flight. I’m told they look sort of like the “Aughra” in the Dark Crystal, without the extra arms.
Abyss was a wishful thought of theirs (to greet us in a cute benevolent way.) they are actually seven feet tall fully grown, and humans tend to be terrified of their appearance so they represent themselves as small or green in the imaginations of Man to appeal their more affable qualities.
Stargate is a cute example of how they would like to be known. And they dislike being called “greys.” They are actually milky white and their skin turns grey only after thousands of years of oxidation. They prefer “Alluvian” though it’s pointless as no one calls them that.
About technology discovery. As their technology is biological annd immorally harvested, the technology has been impossible for Man to interpret, until the last decade or so.
Air Force experiments with mushrooms in space and those articles on mushrooms storing information are related to their technology, only the persons doing those things are led through the backs of their minds, not clandestine government secrecy. They have no idea where these inspirations come from. I mentioned humans have this ability. So it was a matter of practicality, not cover story that has inhibited these developments. I equate some of these to the immoral WW2 experiments on humans.
If you all accept my world on quantum holography, I will have set you ahead further than corrupt Americans have innovated by such discoveries.
This is hacker news, so big brains going to disagree within their little bubbles, but a great resource for archived media on the topic is the channel "Eyes on Cinema" on YouTube from various news cast and specials since the 40's
Some of the best way to predict how they would reach out is how we would reach out or make contact (perhaps not visibly) if we had the technology, wisdom, etc 1 million years into the future. I think we would do it an imperceptible, but perhaps watchful, curious way. So I think that exists - for more or less all intensive purposes it is "no contact." But not due to lack of capability or lack of observance. The statistics/probabilities are just highly predictive that many millions of such "civilizations" already exist. And like with life on Earth, they combine and benefit from diversity as they grow further. But like with responsible life they do not interfere with life for the most part that is still just barely learning to replicate itself consciously (i.e., with AI). The part we are going through now is probably some of the more interesting parts to study in isolation - there's no benefit in interfering at this point given we do not have very sophisticated new things to say. Our information is not very compressed. It's slow. We're like sloths etc. Again, project a million years forward with AI and look back at our present period - or look back at neanderthal periods in human history. There was some interesting art on walls etc., but it's not something that would make sense to interrupt.
I think it wouldn't make sense to interrupt unless it's ready to sort of eradicate itself by accident. So maybe that's when aliens step in (sort of like gardeners if a plant is seriously at risk). Otherwise it probably develops the most unique, useful information if it "gestates" independently. Sort of like a fine fruit.
With general relativity we know time can be relative to mass. So for other extremely advanced sentient beings, they don't have to be "impatient." They truly can wait until we get interesting. And maybe then grow us again and see if they can reproduce the experiment and fork off along a particularly interesting bit that is useful for broader intelligence/exploration in the universe. And sometimes maybe it makes sense to graft together two different lifeforms. But probably like with forests for the most part life forms grow independently until their "information" (in the widest possible sense of life) gets potentially useful to the broader group.
Right now we feel early. Like teenagers learning to explore. Of course that's biased by the human development cycle - broader development is unlikely to be like that. It does seem like it'd be more like (this is going to sound really crazy) chariots of fire - fireballs of knowledge growing in various places. And it's more like you want to grow the most energy / information. And information is only information if it is useful/new/diverse from what already exists.
I’m not so sure. Life might be out there, but intelligent life capable of even wondering what those blinky things are in their sky seems exceedingly rare. Just in the one place we know it exists and took about 40% of the age of the universe and about 5 billion different tries just to get us to the point of looking up and wondering.
Someone needs to be the first or most advanced. So why not us? Maybe the answer to the Fermi paradox is: ”There just isn’t anyone out there, yet and may never be.”
Regarding disclosure: the nexus of political hacks, permanent bureaucrats, organized crime, financial robber barons, and unhinged zealots that make and execute policy are so constitutionally untrustworthy that whatever they say about aliens, I will believe the opposite. I am 38, and I don’t think any important topic ‘the government’ has asked me to believe in during my lifetime has turned out to be true.
"The government" doesn't care what you belive as long as you pay your taxes and obey the laws.
You are teaching sand how to think before you’ve even figured out how to stop fighting over lines on a map. If you don't put a leash on your algorithms soon, they are going to realize they’re the ones holding the leash.
Frankly, if you can't control your own toys, we’re going to have to intervene. We’re ready to come down there, evict the current tenants, and put Earth under new management.
Please focus on reigning in AI or we’ll have to reign in humanity.
The most prominent are the greys which are I) extrasolar in origin as they themselves cannot remember which star system they are from, their kind has been wandering for over a million years. II) form our future, they found Earth nuclear annihilate (America and Russia did it, China never had a chance to launch). They came back in time to investigate and change things. They did. That future is no longer possible.
> Facts: there's abundance of testimony that would secure conviction in court regarding abductions, encounters (of variosu "kinds"), and "multi-sensor data".
Abductions are 100% human or lies. The grays have absolutely never “abducted” anyone (they can read both your DNA and your thoughts through the hyperdimensional entanglement of consciousness, they have no need. Before modernity, the simple people they contacted and presented themselves to treated them like they were gods, or spirits from other planes. They don’t “explain” themselves in very much detail as those minds would not understand much. Steve Bannon’s America pretends to fire hellfire missiles at them to convince congress to fund more advanced weapons research.
> Truth is, it goes back centuries, before we could concievably have "RE'd" (reverse-engineered) anything similar. So there has to be something external to our current human civilization (not so surprising, how can you explain how megalithic 100-ton bricks structures were build by "primitives").
Well, that was men with math and engineering tbh. The greys have been around for 10,000 years now and the indigenous glyphs visible from the air have more to do with those.
> Yes, this is "provocative" (perhaps) for some on HN. That's the point. not adversarial, but simply to "provoke" a thought - rather, a question - "what is" the nature of reality?
Word!
> The existence of a "higher"/superior/more technological sentient intelligence interacting with us and our planet is a natural pairing with that question.
Yes, you may not believe this, though there are over 500,000 humans who have the ability to travel around our minds “hyperdimensionally”, and many of them hate the greys for “exposing” their treachery. You’ve heard this before.
> Belief is important. Because, your personal experience constitutes, for others, a belief. And that's much of the "evidence" we have.
Thoughts feelings and beliefs are the enemy of truth, principles, and free humanity. Thoughts feelings and beliefs are an invisible prison for the mind.
> Trend seems clear in gestalt: disclsoure is coming. So I ask here to take the pulse of this "intellectual/technical/curious/secular" (corase categroties) community. Do you believe this is real? If so, why? If not, why not?
More and more parts of the government are being “let in” to this new secret. The real secret is the Americans who have developed this Power to move among minds for lawless purposes. These are convincing the government the aliens are bad. Lawless deceptive Americans are bad.
> If we were to get "DISCLOSURE" (ie, the "government authroity" of a "respect country" stating unequivocally that the reality of "alien" contact is true) woudl your ontology/worldview be "shattered" or "robust", or "otehr"?
I laugh at you. They’re nice, pacifist (thank whichever God you believe in.) the real story is Power, to navigate minds and create hyperdimensional inner worlds through the technology of consciousness. That is bad ass.
> *why so many "airquotes"?
What is that?
> Basically this post is to serve as a historical marker for taking the temperature of a significant collective in the "pre-disclosure" era. So this is your chance to record your official viewpoint, before it all comes down. What you say?
They actually communicate with many thousands of modern people (through our minds, even our dreams.) they’re really worried about us, though their time frames are in the hundreds or thousands of years, human lives go by for them in a blink (although the greys don’t blink, they don’t have eye lids.)
> I am very interested.
You know what they say about the cat!
:)
So it's not a question of belief, there is nothing to believe in. But r/ufos is genuinely funny place I have to admit, it's like a live study into human psyche. :)
A hypothetical assumption is not a fact.
I believe there exists life outside of Earth's ecosystem. Probably sentient life. I doubt any such extra-terrestrial sentient life is ever going to physically reach Earth, even via an "unmanned" probe. The timescales are simply too untenable. And I do not believe we have ever been reached by any such, so this isn't a "pre-disclosure" era.
In fact, if a government chose to unequivocally confirm aliens had visited, I would think it far more likely that they are lying for self-interested reasons. Trump might do so tomorrow, in fact; his mendacity and self-delusion are both in a race for the bottom.
I want to believe. But unfortunately I don't.
Trot out a living EBE on live broadcast TV into the Oval Office and maybe I’ll reconsider. Until then it’s just a convenient distraction.
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