Windows 10 Resists Its End: Usage Share Climbs While Windows 11's Falls
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Windows 11
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Operating System Adoption
Windows 10's usage share has increased while Windows 11's has decreased, sparking discussion about user dissatisfaction with Windows 11's features and Microsoft's direction.
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I have 0 telemetry on Arch Linux.
Assuming Apple itself doesn't bypass Little Snitch, I don't even think Apple is doing the level of telemetry Microsoft does.
I bought a Mac for my next laptop, and I have 0 need for Windows, I have been maining Linux for like six years now, and anything that needs me to use Windows is usually also available on Mac.
Your move Microsoft. Give me an OS for power users that isn't full of marketing driven development.
Simplewall (Henry++) has entered the room.
A few months ago, I worked out how to run Steam as a different user under Xorg. [0] Since then, I've discovered that nearly all of the games I play (and I play a whole bunch of games) work fine under Linux with an AMD graphics card.
I haven't booted into Windows in months. I'm so glad that folks like Valve have put so much effort into making Windows video games run fine on Linux.
[0] It's not hard, and -like many such things- could totally be set up by a distro if they cared to do so.
Of course it's easy to argue that kernel-level anticheat gives way too much system access for a simple video game. But it's currently the most effective form of anticheat, and I don't see it going away anytime soon.
There are so many multiplayer games that don't use invasive kernel-mode anticheat. I and my friends have been playing them for quite a long while now.
I agree that there are games that won't work because their invasive kernel-mode anticheat won't run under Wine or Proton (and their devs haven't bothered to port it to Linux). Honestly? I'm quite fine with that. There are so many great games out there; I'm totally okay with never again playing the insignificant percentage of them that demand full control of my computer.
Personally, I know that the upcoming Battlefield 6 is making me question if I want to switch to Linux once Windows 10 support dies. For a lot of people, being able to play 99% of games on Linux doesn't matter if they can't play one specific game they enjoy. It's a situation that just sucks all around, and I don't see it getting fixed anytime soon.
On the one hand, true. On the other hand, I wonder how BF6's day 1 demand will compare with that of Silksong!
> For a lot of people, being able to play 99% of games on Linux doesn't matter if they can't play one specific game they enjoy.
Sure, yeah, agreed. And the only thing that's wrong with that is that they can't play the game they want to play.
> Personally, I know that the upcoming Battlefield 6 is making me question if I want to switch to Linux once Windows 10 support dies.
Yeah, BF6 demanding Secure Boot be enabled is fascinating. All that effort and they currently do (and will continue to) have cheaters. Plus, all it takes is one buggy widely-used kernel component to render the whole Secure Boot exercise pointless.
Bear in mind that I'm quite a fan of first-person shooters when reading the following:
It seems to me that the big-name Military-Themed Murder Simulators are all released on both PC and PS5 these days. It seems like many of them support attaching a mouse and keyboard to the console and giving you mouse+keyboard control. Honestly, if I ever get the urge to play one of those flashy-but-not-at-all-good-enough-to-justify-the-price-let-alone-the-invasive-kernel-mode-combination-snoopware-and-backdoors things again, I'll just get a copy for PS5 and attach a mouse and keyboard.
Were I fifteen, I'd be likely to jump through the hoops they're presenting. But, I'm definitely no longer fifteen... and over those years, I've played so many -frequently way better- incarnations of whatever game the big studios are serving up this year. I guess it's a pity for them that years and years of accumulated experience have turned me into something of a low-key snob. ;)
You misunderstand me. I've wasted a ton of my life playing video games. I've played a huge number of video games. If you enjoy violent FPS games, you've not played many games, and you especially haven't played any very good multiplayer FPS games, you're likely to like this year's AAA Military-Themed Murder Simulator (MTMS). As I mentioned, fifteen-year-old me would have surely enjoyed this year's installment of MTMS, as fifteen-year-old me had played many, many fewer games in the genre than mumble-year-old me has.
If I wrote video-game-storefront video game reviews [0], there's a type of positive review that I'd end up writing for many of the games I play. It goes something like
"If this is the first or one of the first games of this type you've played, then definitely get a copy and play it. If you like the genre at all, you'll have a great time. If you have played many games of this type, then consider playing something else, or maybe replaying one of those games. It's a totally competent game, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. But it doesn't do anything or go anywhere that many other games like it haven't already."
There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a competently executed game that doesn't do anything that hasn't already been done before by most of its predecessors. Folks who really want more of the same will enjoy the game, and folks who haven't yet had what you're offering will love what you've done. It's hard to make a competently executed game, and it's dreadfully hard to make a groundbreaking one. There's no shame at all in "merely" making something that's solid and decent.
Hopefully now you better understand what I'm talking about and why? If you're still confused, or things still don't make sense, I'm happy to attempt to answer additional questions.
> That's not sticking it to anyone at all.
Sure? I agree? I'm not of the opinion that I'm sticking it to anyone here. The huge dev shops don't want to make their extremely invasive kernel-mode anti-cheat work on Linux, but are fine with having their software run on the PS5. I don't know if their kernel-mode anticheat runs on the PS5, and I don't particularly care. I'm 110% fine with them doing whatever they feel like to my PS5, which is a dedicated video gaming appliance. I'm not fine with them doing whatever they feel like to the computer I use for my day-to-day business.
Why would I believe that I was sticking it to someone when I pay them money for a copy of the game they made? That'd be a really stupid way to think. That's like book-burner levels of stupid.
[0] ...and maybe that's something I should start doing...
Yup. It really does.
Meanwhile I can buy a Mac and use it immediately, and Windows is a pain but I never have to try 100 solutions before it works.
That’s on me for using NVIDIA though, I’m sure it’s much smoother with Intel and AMD hardware.
Yeah, I can confirm that AMD on Linux just fucking works and has for ages. I've not used any recent Intel 3D accelerator cards, but if their new stuff is as solid as their stuff from like twenty years ago, then it'll also just fucking work.
I've had the complete opposite experience. It's only now that I'm using Nvidia that Linux works for me... I hate to admit it, I'm an AMD fanboy.
Weird. I've been using AMD hardware on Linux for the past ~twenty years... since back when they were ATi. Aside from when one had to write one's own Xorg.conf [0], everything has just worked.
Having said that, all of my laptops have used Intel graphics hardware, so perhaps none of my ATi- or AMD-video-card-bearing systems properly suspended to RAM or hibernated? I wouldn't know because that's not something I do with my desktops or servers.
[0] Or whatever XFree86 called that config file
Pro-tip do installs / updates with "yay" and you will not want to pull your hair out, Pacman is too "low level" for normal use, yay is higher level and simple. How to update your system? just run "yay" no params. Comes out of the box on EndeavourOS.
SteamOS is also based on Arch these days so it will always work the best with Steam. ;)
I do miss openSUSE, but when they became a rolling distro it stopped supporting things like my wireless card OOTB so I stopped trying to use openSUSE.
I am using EndeavourOS with KDE (Arch based, with a GUI installer) daily for nearly a year now, before that I was on POP_OS! but I wanted more up to date packages.
https://store.steampowered.com/account/remotestorage
My previous gaming PC was a 2016-vintage windows machine with a very hacked and lobotomized win10, so nvidia graphics drivers were starting to become a problem what with the lack of windows update and all that...
Steam and emulation works fairly well. Nearly all newer games just run, and most older games do as well. There's a few I won't run because they use kernel-level anti-cheat. I play single-player and no game needs kernel access, not even to check for cheating.
The irony is that I am using this with a 5K Apple Studio Display, lol. The webcam and other onboard goodies do not work (can't control brightness) but the picture quality sure is good.
The Linux desktop is 100% here.
I have Linux working with my Studio Display and it just worked out of the box; speakers, webcam and all. (though, the sound quality on the mac is better).
The only issues were that when I use a USB-C capable graphics card, it only has displayport out over USB-C, and doesn't talk USB4/Thunderbolt to the rest of the computer.. so those devices don't get exposed to the motherboard at all.
If you care- it's a kickass display anyway even if you don't.
> you just need to pass through the video card to the motherboard and then run thunderbolt
I will have to experiment with this. I was using the little daisy chain cables that allow you to go out from GPU -> immediately IN to Thunderbolt card, then monitor was connected to Thunderbolt card. But I couldn't even get any output at all.
Would be curious to hear more about your setup!
I "authorised" the Display in the KDE control panel, probably it was this: https://github.com/KDE/plasma-thunderbolt
I did that before linking the USB-C cable to the gfx card, but I'm not sure if that's required or not? It's the only thing I did.
I had multiple displays at the time, now I just have the Studio Display - if it doesn't work automatically without authorization I wonder how you would bootstrap it..
Checking now in my KDE control panel, I see that I do have a Thunderbolt section, and the display is listed as "Apple Inc. Studio Display - Disconnected, Trusted"
I'll need to play about with this again over the weekend.
FWIW, I have Two entries in my Thunderbolt list for this
Apple doesn’t do all that much telemetry even if all the telemetry settings are enabled. Because you’re not a product to them. Which is probably why they didn’t even play in the AI race.
Seen the battery life figures on yesterday’s iPhones? And ARM revolution was just 5 years ago.
I would hardly call it “little innovation to show”.
Little snitch doesn't talk directly to the kernel's netfilter/iptables/nftables framework so some traffic may be hidden from it (low-level stuff that cannot be accessed via the API). I don't use it so I don't know if there is a way to bypass this in the settings or with special permission.
I have used linux on and off for 20 years now, and every time I end up back on windows, and it's such a relief when I am back. And so upsetting that I cannot escape windows.
Windows solves friction with GUI usability.
Linux solves friction with expectation of CLI mastery.
It's forever damned to the 5% of people who are willing to toil with a CLI (yes, I know your grandma uses it to check her e-mail, unfortunately the -only- thing she does is check email).
Then we have the likes of Android and MacOS, which had product people force engineering to bury all CLI stuff.
If you need it to feel like Windows there's KDE - but if you're OK with changing your mind then things like ElemeteryOS (https://elementary.io/) put a huge amount of focus on UX, accessibility, beauty and of course: usability.
Aside from Archlinux, the majority of mainstream distributions bend over themselves to offer you GUIs for everything. Yes, the CLI is powerful and you will be better served by not avoiding it: but you can get by totally fine if you never open a single terminal on Ubuntu or Bazzite.
This is written as a power-user lamenting having power, and presuming that non-power users will have to learn to be a power user.. that's just not a thing in linux since at least 2016.
Isn’t it great that we both have options that cater to us! :D
The distro I use (Slackware), 100% true. Plus that can be said for many others too.
But, RHEL and by extension Rocky and Alma Linux are driven by corporations and marketing, like Windows is. So if you want a marketing driven OS, you have these anyway.
I just hope RHEL changes does not infect Slackware, a couple of things snuck in due to dependencies, but luckily it did not change the feel of Slackware (yet).
https://github.com/AlmaLinux/ALESCo/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclo...
I strictly use KDE. It is well refined, all the KDE built apps follow a consistent UI. It behaves much like I have expected any desktop OS to behave. Back in the days of KDE 3 (or 3.5?) they used to do a setup wizard where it would ask you which experience you'd prefer: Windows, Mac, or Linux and it would change everything to match how those platforms behaved.
I've never really understood this complaint. On GNOME/KDE, all the normal system administration/configuration stuff (the types of settings you'd see in the control panel on Windows) are accessible through the settings GUI. The situations in which I've had to use the CLI on Linux are basically equivalent to when I have to use the Registry Editor, Group Policy Editor, Services Manager, or PowerShell scripts on Windows, none of which are really any more user friendly than the Linux CLI.
The lack of respect Microsoft shows for its users is appalling.
Win95 (bad), Win98 (good), WinMe (bad), WinXP (good), Win Vista (bad), Win 7 (good), Win 8 (bad), Win 10 (good), Win 11 (bad), ...
It'll be Copilot#
It’s not for everyday use, but if you need some Windows machine to run old software and won’t surf the Internet with it, it’s awesome.
Although quite some applications could not run on it, due to compatibility issues, so it is not in the list.
Best case, W11 tanks when W10 goes away and Microsoft becomes irrelevant on the PC.
More realistically, W11 will become SaaS with a sort of rolling release similar to Arch. After all, why build a new OS when you can do nothing and rake in subscription fees? Actually, why create anything of value when you have such a profitable racket as renting people's own PC to them for literally any price you want?
Hopefully Microsoft wither dies or becomes an ineffectual zombie like IBM or HP.
My work issued device is on Windows and I keep a Windows PC at home just to make the switching between work and home simpler but I have no reason not to switch to Linux at home.
Getting rid of the customisable/movable taskbar and replacing it with the god-awful Mac-style centre menu was an absolute travesty of design.
Similarly, replacing functional control panel dialogs with the "settings app".
The insistence on packaging programs as "app bundles".
Then there's the slew of useless always-online garbage, which literally nobody asked for, and which basically amounts to user-hostile spyware.
MS needs to accept that user interface design mostly peaked about a decade or two ago, and anything beyond that has been pointless tinkering at best, or actual regression of usability at worst.
Why is that a requirement?
https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe/releases
> What’s new in Flyoobe 1.7.284
> This update is especially important for everyone still on Windows 10 who plans to stay there and take advantage of the Extended Security Updates (ESU) program.
Also in 1.10 stable, of course.
> The insistence on packaging programs as "app bundles".
I don't think appx is too bad on its own - the operating system should have a package manager, it provides a means of handling common dependencies (although this was for WinUI3, which is kind of dead), and both MSI and CAB are very old, weird file formats.
The UWP sandboxing .. I can see why they did it, protection against malicious apps, but it completely handicaps desktop apps.
> Then there's the slew of useless always-online garbage, which literally nobody asked for, and which basically amounts to user-hostile spyware.
Yes, this is Bad and the sort of thing the EU should start leaning on.
> MS needs to accept that user interface design mostly peaked about a decade or two ago
The original Windows era had plenty of work put into accessibility and making it clear what was clickable. The modern era swept that away in favor of "looks nice to minimalists", and I think it's a loss.
> The original Windows era had plenty of work put into accessibility and making it clear what was clickable.
It makes you wonder what would have happened if Microsoft had frozen Windows core UI features at 7 and instead invested the countless person-years of UI (re-)development elsewhere...
It will. They all do, eventually.
Never get used to anything in the tech industry, because tomorrow it will be gone.
Otherwise Mac OS is soooo much better and the hardware is so much better and if there weren’t ai most people would never have to upgrade from Mac M1.
They also need to stop dumping spyware and forcing people into onedrive etc.
The reason I'm not using a Mac is because of their walled garden, the gross intent to control all the devs. This is admittedly very trendy right now and Google and Microsoft are at it too.
Those are really the two big frictions that I find with using anything other than Windows and Mac.
https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe
It can be run after install to disable AI/Apps/experience crap that M$ forces on you.
Also, remember to disable app updates in M$ store or it will just reinstall everything you uninstalled on every reboot.
https://web.archive.org/web/20250909050314/https://github.co...
"What Andy give us, Bill taketh away" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law
Competing for a segment that it can't win while losing the segment it owns i must be some business school cases study in the works. What's the point in being a slighlty less tall giraffe when you were a rhino before?
For good features it will be "I made the decision!", for bad features it will be weasel words like "we heard our users loud and clear" or "we modernized" or "we streamlined", etc... basically as if the bad feature was caused by some external force or by a committee decision.
I've personally witnessed this at work and for lack of better terms call it "leadership by weakness". Initiatives to change a situation will be either ignored or actively undermined by lack of support from the one in charge.
Outsiders get the impression that "it just happened this way" or "things just are like this" but it really was a conscious decision by leadership. As an employee I found it insulting because of course our customers blamed us developers.
Exactly! And who sets those incentives?
Imagine if Satya Nadella was an avid Windows power user that thinks having a vertical tab bar is the best invention since sliced bread. Would he really fuzz around with StartAllBack etc.? Because "it just is like this now"? Or would he be able to influence the Windows team to simply implement it? Of course he could. He just doesn't care about vertical tab bars.
As a side note, I see the blaming of bad situations on "for-profit organizations" as if management had no other choices just because somebody made a spreadsheet as an easy excuse for them to not stand behind their decisions.
If this "profit-uber-alles" theory was true executives would reduce their compensation to minimum wage. It clearly is more complicated.
The organization.
Executives like to think they're in charge, but they're selected for their alignment with the goals of the organization and if they stray far from that they get replaced. Satya isn't the kind of man who would put good taste in software design first, and if he was then he wouldn't be in the position.
> As a side note, I see the blaming of bad situations on "for-profit organizations" as if management had no other choices
They have one key choice, they can walk away. Whenever they realize the corporation is going to do something they don't want to be involved with, they can and should walk away. Sometimes they do, but when they choose comfort over good aesthetic sense, ethics, morales, laws.. they can and should be judged for that. The worldview I am advocating for (viewing organizations as organisms, or Slow AIs as others have put it) is not about absolving individual humans of responsibility. As long as they continue to participate in the organization, they're responsible. Rather, the point of the mental model is to remind people that organizations, particularly in this case corporations, are inhumane monsters which lack an innate understanding of human values.
They are terraforming our planet into a less habitable one, making many people miserable and turn useful things into abominations. One usually can't point at a single person deciding that it should be so, but at the end that's what's the output is.
The paperclip machine is here and it's optimizing for GDP growth.
https://nothinghuman.substack.com/p/the-tyranny-of-the-margi...
Microsoft execs believed nothing could drive Windows users away, because they're addicted, but changes -could- potentially bring in Mac users. So everything was designed by and for Mac users.
I don't like KDE's default settings but it took me a mere seconds to get the desktop I like.
Of course this is not a new idea and how it used to be on Windows. The real question is why removing user choice has become so fashionable in UX design. Maybe it's just a phase and will pass.
The machine now takes longer on startup to get to an operational state, the changes to the right click context menu are ridiculous and asinine, and the corners are now rounded on all the windows. Dear microsoft: take a look at windows IRL. ask yourself: are these rectangles, or squircles?
What is there for me to gain as an end user? Seems like Microsoft just gets more user data and is able to sell more ads while i have to use shittier software.
personally, i like my productivity software not to be weirdly configured just for like, vibes, or whatever.
For when Windows 7 support ended they started filling the OS with updates and UI elements for the purpose upgrading, and lots of people ended up accidentally upgrading to Windows 10.
The movement towards locked down systems owned by our betters needs to be opposed as strongly as possible, both in the desktop and mobile arenas.
Windows 11 has no attractive features for me over 10. And the UX is subpar. So I'll upgrade when I'll absolutely have to.
I would be happy just to get the Windows 11 kernel, just for supporting more devices or better APIs. The UI? I was happier with Windows 2000.
Flatpak takes care of monster applications like Chrome, KiCAD, LibreOffice, Steam, and so on. Only one of my Steam games gives me a problem: Crysis* (Of course it doesn't run Crysis!) Setting up CUPS was as simple as adding a line to a config file, starting CUPS, adding my HP laser and hit print in Chrome and get a printed document. I recently had to install Zoom so I plugged in a random Webcam, installed Zoom via flatpak and Zoom just worked.
The thing that gets me is that I don't notice I'm using Linux. I'm just using my computer like always. I also have to remind myself to run updates every few weeks but there are times it goes over a month without issue. I have full control of my computer without any of the previous issues.
* Original Crysis, not the remaster which I hear should work under Proton.
It's the same story with Xbox. Microsoft is simply too big to have the passion for their gaming division (which is what entertainment needs).
Why did[1] the share of Windows 8 (not 8.1) also grow each month from May to August, for example?
[1] https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desk...
See also this recent thread about Linux marketshare: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44580682
1. Erratic and bugged out address bar of Explorer in Windows 11.
- Address bar can be sticky (you can't make it close)
- Address bar popping out when you take focus of a window if address has been previously clicked into - so you will double click icon in the unfocused window, but address bar will pop out and you will click on random address in your computer.
- Address bar offering suggestion for recent directory X, but when you press down key to select it, it will choose different address from a different list which you don't see.
- Clicking into address bar can clear it while you want to select it. Especially when address is longer and window is smaller.
Windows 10 may not support tabs in Explorer, but boy at least the experience is not pain in the ass.
2. Windows 11 being picky about support processors, secure boot and TPM. On some computer I needed to go as far as updating UEFI to make it working.
Also on Windows 10 I have noticed that Microsoft is not trying shove AI down your throat. So that might be reason too.
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