The RAM Shortage Comes for Us All
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As a looming RAM shortage threatens to shake up the tech industry, speculation is running rampant about Apple's potential response. Some commenters think Apple will stick to their lucrative RAM upgrade pricing, while others predict they'll pass on increased costs to consumers, with one forecasting a 20%+ price bump on new Mac hardware. The discussion reveals a consensus that Apple relies on the same three major RAM suppliers as everyone else, making it unlikely they'll start manufacturing their own RAM. With Apple's pricing history and negotiating power up for debate, the conversation is buzzing with intrigue about how this RAM shortage will play out.
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It’s been pointed out by others that price is part of Apple's marketing strategy. You can see that in the trash can Mac Pro, which logically should have gotten cheaper over the ridiculous six years it was on sale with near-unchanged specs. But the marketing message was, "we're selling a $3000 computer."
Those fat margins leave them with a nice buffer. Competing products will get more expensive; Apple's will sit still and look even better by comparison.
We are fortunate that Apple picked last year to make 16gb the new floor, though! And I don't think we're going to see base SSDs get any more generous for a very, very long time.
* okay I do remember that Macbook Airs could be had for $999 for a few years, that disappeared for a while, then came back
Perhaps I don't understand something so clarification would be helpful:
I was under the impression that Apple's RAM was on-die, and so baked in during chip manufacturing and not a 'stand alone' SKU that is grafted onto the die. So Apple does not go out to purchase third-party product, but rather self-makes it (via ASML) when the rest of the chip is made (CPU, GPU, I/O controller, etc).
Is this not the case?
Even lower end GPUs are getting more expensive even if they are not really useful for AI. But they still contain <some> chips and ram which is in high demand.
So yes, Apple will likely also have to pay higher priceses when they renew their contracts.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Mac_Mini...
That square is the whole M1 package, Apple's custom die is under the heatspreader on the left, and the two blocks on the right are LPDDR packages stacked on top of the main package.
They don't care. They'll pass the cost on to the consumers and not give it a second thought.
Crazy times.
You can go 16GB if you go native and throw some assembly in the mix. Use old school scripting languages. Debloat browsers.
It has been long delayed.
But it doesn't matter either way, because both 16 and 32GB have what, doubled, tripled? It's nuts. Even if you say "just buy less memory", now is a horrible time to be building a system.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IagZIM9MtLo
You can achieve a lot by learning Klong and reading the intro on statistics. And xargs to paralelize stuff. Oh, and vidir to edit directories at crazy speeds with any editor, even nano or gedit if you like them.
SSD’s are also up. Hell I am seeing refurbished enterprise HDD’s at 2x right now. It’s sharp increases basically across the board except for CPU’s/GPU’s.
Every PC build basically just cranked up $400-$600 easily, and that’s not accounting for the impact of inflation over the last few years weakening everyone’s wallets. The $1600 machine I spec’d out for my buddy 5 weeks ago to buy parts for this Black Friday now runs $2k even.
Visit any news site or any Fandom wiki and then check eg Firefox about:memory. It'll be a lot.
And for security reasons, different tabs can't easily share resources like you might expect them to.
[0]: For me this is really an important part of working with Claude, the model improves with the time but stay consistent, its "personality" or whatever you want to call it, has been really stable over the past versions, this allows a very smooth transition from version N to N+1.
What I can think of is that there may be a push toward training for exclusively search-based rewards so that the model isn't required to compress a large proportion of the internet into their weights. But this is likely to be much slower and come with initial performance costs that frontier model developers will not want to incur.
If openAI is spending $500B then someone can get ahead by spending $1B which improves the model by >0.2%
I bet there's a group or three that could improve results a lot more than 0.2% with $1B.
The knowledge compressed into an LLM is a byproduct of training, not a goal. Training on internet data teaches the model to talk at all. The knowledge and ability to speak are intertwined.
That just gave me an idea! I wonder how useful (and for what) a model would be if it was trained using a two-phase approach:
1) Put the training data through an embedding model to create a giant vector index of the entire Internet.
2) Train a transformer LLM but instead only utilising its weights, it can also do lookups against the index.
Its like a MoE where one (or more) of the experts is a fuzzy google search.
The best thing is that adding up-to-date knowledge won’t require retraining the entire model!
We actually don't know for certain whether these agreements are binding. If OpenAI gets in a credit crunch we'll soon find out.
https://www.micron.com/us-expansion/id
>help ensure U.S. leadership in memory development and manufacturing, underpinning a national supply chain and R&D ecosystem.
It's more political than supply based
The 2027 timeline for the fab is when DDR6 is due to hit market.
But yeah even if that's true I don't know why they wouldn't hedge their bets a bit.
DRAM manufacturers got burned multiple times in the past scaling up production during a price bubble, and it appears they've learned their lesson (to the detriment of the rest of us).
With a bit of luck OpenAI collapses under its own weight sooner than later, otherwise we're screwed for several years.
2024 production was (according to openai/chatgpt) 120 billion gigabytes. So about 15 GB per human.
For one, if this was about inference, wouldn't the bottleneck be the GPU computation part?
Suppose some some parallelized, distributed task requires 700GB of memory (I don't know if it does or does not) per node to accomplish, and that speed is a concern.
A singular pile of memory that is 700GB is insufficient not because it lacks capacity, but instead because it lacks scalability. That pile is only enough for 1 node.
If more nodes were added to increase speed but they all used that same single 700GB pile, then RAM bandwidth (and latency) gets in the way.
For training, their models have a certain number of memory needed to store the parameters, and this memory is touched for every example of every iteration. Big models have 10^12 (>1T )parameters, and with typical values of 10^3 examples per batch, and 10^6 number of iteration. They need ~10^21 memory accesses per run. And they want to do multiple runs.
DDR5 RAM bandwidth is 100G/s = 10^11, Graphics RAM (HBM) is 1T/s = 10^12. By buying the wafer they get to choose which types of memory they get.
10^21 / 10^12 = 10^9s = 30 years of memory access (just to update the model weights), you need to also add a factor 10^1-10^3 to account for the memory access needed for the model computation)
But the good news is that it parallelize extremely well. If you parallelize you 1T parameters, 10^3 times, your run time is brought down to 10^6 s = 12 days. But you need 10^3 *10^12 = 10^15 Bytes of RAM by run for weight update and 10^18 for computation (your 120 billions gigabytes is 10^20, so not so far off).
Are all these memory access technically required : No if you use other algorithms, but more compute and memory is better if money is not a problem.
Is it strategically good to deprive your concurrents from access to memory : Very short-sighted yes.
It's a textbook cornering of the computing market to prevent the emergence of local models, because customers won't be able to buy the minimal RAM necessary to run the models locally even just the inferencing part (not the training). Basically a war on people where little Timmy won't be able to get a RAM stick to play computer games at Xmas.
> if money is not a problem.
Money is a problem, even for them.
How did we get here? What went so wrong?
They can't. They know they can't. We all know they can't. But they can just keep abusing the infinite money glitch to price everyone else out, so it doesn't matter.
I'm assuming you wouldn't see it as fine if the corporation was profitable.
> How did we get here?
We've always been there. Not that it makes it right, but that's an issue that is neither simple to fix nor something most law makers are guaranteed to want to fix in the first place.
Nothing in the rules stops you from cornering most markets, and an international companies with enough money can probably corner specific markets if they'd see a matching ROI.
I feel like the implication of what they said was "think of how much worse it would be if they could truly spare no expense on these types of things". If an "unprofitable" company can do this, what could a profitable company of their size do on a whim?
I already hate OpenAI, you don't have to convince me
More rot economy. Customers are such a drag. Lets just sell to other companies for billion dollar deals at once. These AI companies have bottomless wallets. No one has thought of this before we will totally get rich.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo
Says a lot about human psychology.
Now you can't even fit a browser doing nothing into that memory...
Note that fixing the site won't increase my chances of donating, I'm from the ASML country ;)
Also, you know, there's a whole process you'll need to develop. So prepare to be not making money (but spending tons of it on running the lines) until you have a well tested PDK.
how about a farm of electron microscopes? these should work
https://global.canon/en/technology/nil-2023.html
https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/nanoimprint-lithograph...
They'll still probably require a good bit of operator and designer knowledge to work around whatever rough edges exist in the technology to keep yields high, assuming it works. It's still not a "plug it in, feed it blank wafers, press PRINT, and out comes finished chips!" kind of machine some here seem to think exist.
I'll do the engineering so we're good on that front. Just need investors.
Of course, it takes quite some time for a fab to go from an idea to mass production. Even in China. Expect prices to drop 2-3 years from now when all the new capacity comes online?
Of course the problem is we don't see what would be missed by doing this investment. If you put extra people into solving this problem that means less people curing cancer or whatever. (China has a lot of people, but not unlimited)
According to ASML's Q3 2025 filing, 42% of all system sales went to China.
According to my research, these machines can etch around 150 wafers per hour and each wafer can fit around 50 top-of-the-line GPUs. This means we can produce around 7500 AI chips per hour. Sell them for $1k a piece. That's $7.5 million per hour in revenue. Run the thing for 3 days and we recover costs.
I'm sure there's more involved but that sounds like a pretty good ROI to me.
This will get you started: https://youtu.be/B2482h_TNwg
Keep in mind that every wafer makes multiple trips around the fab, and on each trip it visits multiple machines. Broadly, one trip lays down one layer, and you may need 80-100 layers (although I guess DRAM will be fewer). Each layer must be aligned to nanometer precision with previous layers, otherwise the wafer is junk.
Then as others have said, once you finish the wafer, you still need to slice it, test the dies, and then package them.
Plus all the other stuff....
You'll need billions in investment, not millions - good luck!
I drive by a large fab most days of the week. A few breweries I like are down the street from a few small boutique fabs. I got to play with some experimental fab equipment in college. These aren't just some quickly thrown together spaces in any random warehouse.
And it's also ignoring the water manufacturing process, and having the right supply chain to receive and handle these ultra clean discs without introducing lots of gunk into your space.