The Macbook Air 2025 Is Now Cheaper Than a Random Mid-Range Windows Laptop
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The article claims the MacBook Air 2025 is now cheaper than a random mid-range Windows laptop, sparking debate among commenters about the validity of this comparison and the relative value of Macs versus Windows laptops.
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Just buy more if you need it or cloud storage or a nas idk man, theres solutions.
Or buy windows, the choice is there.
You can use it as a glorified internet terminal with some light office apps within 256GB.
But it’s a pain in the ass to swap applications constantly, clear caches, delete large files and so on once you exceed those use cases.
512GB is a bit better, but then I shouldn’t have multiple toolchains or other large applications installed, multiple versions of Xcode, etcetera.
Media goes on my RAID1 NAS. Whose boot drive is running on a 32GB SSD.
As long as I have enough space to install the programs I use I don’t see the need for more boot drive storage. Network and external storage are cheaper and more convenient.
Also Apple likes to sell extra iCloud storage.
Either apple refurbished a product return and then resold back through Verkkokauppa? The machine came with Sonoma 14.3 or 14.4 which is well after the November 2023 manufacturing date. But sealed box threw me off, cause the unboxing felt exactly the same as for a brand new macbook. Warranty I got from the store is also the same you would get for a brand new item.
nonetheless, the value is great. 24/512 14inc M4 Pro costs 2500eur in Finland brand new for reference and I got this M3 Max for 2999
everything i buy is refurbished from apple. better deal than new.
This thing has 400 gb/s memory bandwith and never swaps. For dev work with shitload of dockers it just flies. Compile times in the newer CPUs are better but not by much.
For local LLM it's not the best (no cuda support), but for everything else this thing will last at least for the next 3 years easily.
It's sort of worth noting though that when Microsoft is presented with an option for blocking out Linux installation: they take it.[0]
When Apple are presented with an option for allowing Linux, they take it.[1]
The major difference here is OEMs, and that Apple has no OEMs.
We're essentially giving Microsoft the moral high ground even though they do nothing to earn it.
[0]: https://www.mickaelwalter.fr/linux-on-surface-rt/#:~:text=Al...
[1]: https://asahilinux.org/about/#:~:text=Apple%20allows%20booti...
I find comments like this a little puzzling. Apple products run MacOS. The operating system is part of the package. And yet someone always shows up to say they would never buy it because of the operating system… it would be like me showing up on a post about an android phone and saying I would never buy it because it won’t run iOS.
Not that it matters because it got replaced by a laptop costing 1/3 of the cheapest MBA. Mac users are delusional about the longevity of Apple stuff and have a distorted worldview where PC users change their hardware every 2 years or so. They don't and my experience is that it's completely the reverse (hence the massive 2nd hand market for Macs).
I think this might be another sign of a slowing economy or high inflation.
Apple certainly isn't perfect and has released some tripe lately (iOS 26) but I trust they'll work through the kinks. Apple seems to undulate, whereas Windows's trajectory seems net downward.
But the typical person taking home a new laptop from Best Buy doesn't care about installation. UX is the same as it has been for a while now - click on an icon and the application will start. Things like printers and scanners pretty much just work now.
The main market for Windows these days is corporate users and gamers and Microsoft is still doing a pretty good job of serving both of those markets.
It feels like it is. I was watching my wife use Outlook the other day and was appalled by how slow it is. The last time I used it it was fine on 2000 era hardware, now it barely runs on 2025 hardware. It seems Microsoft has forgotten how to write good software.
If you try to run the latest OS on dirt cheap hardware, it's going to run bad no matter what. Macs are not immune to this, in fact they are much more susceptible to it.
Microsoft seems to insist on alienating a whole generation of computer users. I expect that this next Christmas I'll be doing a lot of Vista or 7 installations.
Not OP, but yes. I'd rather my computer be old and vulnerable than hostile.
well there you go.
A couple months ago I also switched from Android to iPhone. My overall perception is Apple isn’t perfect, but definitely does privacy better, and their guidelines for user experience in design avoid some of the more egregious things MS and Google have changed recently.
Other than that, you can have my iPhone when you take it from my cold, dead…
You did not dig deep enough or you'd have added the Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows NT4 and probably even still some lingering Windows NT 3 UI elements.
Windows 11 changed that. I have to reinstall it every six months or so due to instability. Last time it happened, multiple monitor capability disabled, audio out to my headphones kept disappearing (reboot to fix), and every few days upon rebooting, boot would fail requiring the Bitlocker PIN. I don’t install any weird drivers/software or visit weird sites, never get malware. It’s just Windows fragility. I really miss Win10.
I’m scheduled for a new laptop in June and I’ve decided it’s getting Ubuntu. I’m done. Windows 11 is just too fragile. I checked and all of the important apps I use now have near-perfect Linux counterparts. So the software compatibility issue is no longer a concern for me.
Bye, Microsoft!
Oh and I’ve been using Lubuntu for the past year on my road laptop. No issues.
Good enough.
The disadvantage of Ubuntu is its weird mixture of apt and snap. The snaps self-update when they feel like it (eg when you're on a train, wasting your precious data). Debian uses apt for everything. It's a lot simpler and you have more control over it.
Linux desktop is having so much positive changes happen to it. Something like Bazzite or Cachy is a significantly better experience for general desktop usage.
Also, most tutorials when we’re talking about desktop no longer assume Ubuntu.
There’s a reason steam decided to be based on arch for the steam deck.
Work laptop has done a little better but if memory serves they did have to reinstall it about a year ago. I only use very bland software on that.
That, or I'm installing some software causing this. I don't install weird software, and it was software that I had used in Win10 on another laptop, so that's probably not it.
Toss that with the seemingly OBVIOUS throttling due to non-existent forced air cooling that nearly every fanboy bench tester has given a pass for. 15 years ago NO ONE would have tolerated a 40% performance drop after heatsoaking.
The RAM size is barely an issue because the OS has had excellent efficiency from coming from phone engineering. I've had 16 gig for years and never had a problem.
I'm on a 36gb M3 and I have to reboot it every three to five days to have it behave again.
I have normal dev apps open: a browser with jira, another with testing, another with documentation, an ide, teams, calendar, zoom.. it adds up very, very quickly. 16gigs are gone in the blink of an eye
Nah they just aren't charging apple tax. "Bad" ssd (which imo are still amazing) are dirt cheap these days.
I've a lot of experience with owning both Windows and Apple laptops for a long time.
Much more noticeably, however is the Intel Core Ultra 5 225U which is about half the performance as an M4.
However, the $900 MacBook is not the one with the large screen, right? That costs much more money, right? It doesn’t make sense to compare a small laptop with a large laptop. Even if they are in the same price range, consumers aren’t really choosing between the two.
What workloads are you envisioning where this is a problem and if throttling kicks in does it make ui/os laggy, or just reduce throughput (the former being noticeable where the latter is just mean longer wait of say a rendering job or something). I'm guessing maybe gaming is the issue, but i don't think anyone really buys a mac to game.
I have a large rig that I run as a dual linux/windows machine, but the quality of windows laptops have been getting poorer and poorer and the OS is increasingly becoming incredibly intrusive while removing core features.
I want to be able to search without it taking 5 mintues. I used to be incredibly pro windows laptops due to aspects like repairability, but i've had a horrific experience with Lenovo just trying to get a keyboard repaired. In the end, if I need to choose between two systems, both of which are unrepairable, i'd much rather have the one that will last me longer.
I don't want to use my singular experience as a data-point, but I'm someone that has never even thought about buying a mac before this, but the poor quality of windows OS has forced me.
X13: 60 seconds
X1 and everything from Apple: You’re literally doomed. Complete disassembly required. At least Lenovo documents well how to remove the base cover, battery, mainboard, display…
All of that pain for 1 mm less height and a sharp palmrest.
I surprised how much pain people with Windows can suffer and keep using it. With weird arguments like “I forced to use that application” and “Ans Linux doesn’t do FSR4.1 something”. You decided that you need that?
If you know what you are doing, and have that spare part including the correct screwdriver and screws in the shelf next to your desk?
How often does your keyboard fail? I've never had that happen in all my computing life and the other parts are usually not that easy to change for any regular person on a laptop. Not sure if that's the scenario to optimize for.
Laptop defunct. Use an external keyboard if not affordable.
Used my X220 for ten years, handled it with care, but after ten years a new keyboard was a nice uplift. You can also switch languages but especially also the layout between ANSI- and ISO.
Buying an Apple device with ANSI in Europe? Pain. ThinkPads? Buy anything. 30 EUR and new keyboard.
... Which are nearly impossible to replace, and are what the modern Thinkpads are trying to emulate.
The old X13's would almost never fail, so replacing them was never a consideration.
(also, screws are not that annoying, but I agree with the rest, most companies aren't/weren't replacing keyboards on laptops)
Turn Laptop over, look for the screw holes with a keyboard icon next to it, remove those screws with a Phillips size 1 screwdriver, flip over, open lid, slide keyboard up and lift out, unclip flex cable, then do the reverse steps with the new keyboard.
After a while, Lenovo started using more clips and fewer screws and things started to go downhill from there.
but also fiddley.
The procedure for keyboard replacement should be similar between an X1 and MacBook. They are somehow “layered” to be cheap and flat. It was already a pain with the MacBooks from 2008.
I worked in an IT repair place for 5 years where we repaired laptops for customers. I can probably count the number of times we got people asking for keyboard swaps. For context of scale, we probably handled 30-70 computers a week, the vast majority of which were “user serviceable” repair jobs
I've also seen a large percentage of MacBook butterfly switch keyboards require a complete return to Apple, for about 2 years.
Regarding the others… respectfully what on earth are you doing to them that you’ve had to replace them that frequently? That’s more often that I replace actual consumeble parts that have real wear like USB cables and the likes.
But a little sticky liquid is enough. A drop of something hard is also enough. I was able to rescue a ThinkPad by popping out a key and clean the mechanism with isopropyl. Another one was sadly killed by the power-button, which got defunct. But a 20 Euro keyboard safes it.
Don’t underestimate how much devices get killed by simple stuff like lose hinges, defective trackpads and so on. People are often careful, often not and usually helpless when it is damaged.
The water holes in the ThinkPads existed for…reasons. But it doesn’t help if people tilt them in sheer panic.
Short: keyboards fail, quite often. They are wear items which should be user replaceable.
I might consider switching to an X13, but Lenovo support software is incredibly intrusive, and I've learned to despise windows.
However, I also use a large amount of applications like Touch Designer, which is not available on Linux. I'd much rather own a mac for travel purposes.
I can only recommend to use Linux by wanting Linux. This way you can replace stuff which is holding you back.
Just leaving Windows because Microsoft sucks is often failing, you are still within the vendor lock-in of the applications. The authors only port if they
I made a clear cut and lost my favorite game. Luckily Valve decided some years later to port it natively to Linux.
Which leads to two options: Drop proprietary applications. And spending money on Linux support.
Design applications seem one of the most troublesome areas?
You are literally talking about sacrifices you have made specifically to move to a certain linux OS.
That's not a sacrifice I find acceptable. So I'll switch to Mac instead.
But I modified that plist and my Mac ran the latest OS just fine.
Microsoft has done the same thing with the transition from MW10 to MW11. Corporatron is doing something wrong and bad for the environment... to satisfy the needs of Corporatron.
I have long preferred the freedom of GNU/Linux. But Corporatron is making a zealot of me. ^_^
I don't really get how FireWire is best for optical drives. I have been using USB CD/DVD/BluRay drives for over a decade now without an issue.
That being said, I bought an old Dell last year for dev work (primarily Linux) and I can’t believe most of the world puts up with Windows. It seems like desktop computing is an afterthought.
MacOS has never been worse. However it has never been this much better than Windows.
Even on literally top of the line machines (Razer Blade 18, Ultra 9 275HX, 64G DDR5, NVMe over PCIE4, 240Hz display) the thing feels sluggish.
UI "quirks" such as hiding the context menu, taskbar being forced into place, and the removal of the "never combine" taskbar buttons are just gobsmacking.
Worse, Windows Pioneered "drag and drop" yet now we can't even drag and drop files or shortcuts onto taskbar icons.. a workflow I actually used a lot and which is still supported in MacOS.
The forced integration is also a non-starter. MacOS doesn't require online accounts, Apps (onedrive, Teams, Cortana et al) or force "suggestions" down my throat in the UI even though I am constantly told that Apple are the ones who force their ecosystem on me.
I'm not certain as to why, if I had to speculate it would be the new scheduler prefers the efficiency cores and then thrashes the L1/L2 cache as soon as there's any actual work to do in the operating system (IE; you clicked something) by putting it on a performance core.
Windows 11 performance seems to be less terrible on devices that don't have big.LITTLE architectures.
As soon as I heard them say "We're finally able to make the UI that Apple Silicon enables because of its performance" I knew wholeheartedly that it was going to be an enormous performance thief.
I'm not touching 26 with a 10-foot-pole.
I will even avoid buying new Macbook laptops, even though I have an M2 Air and M5 is around the corner.
I'm also of that perspective.
It's sort of worth noting though that when Microsoft is presented with an option for blocking out Linux installation: they take it.[0]
When Apple are presented with an option for allowing Linux, they take it.[1]
The major difference here is OEMs, and that Apple has no OEMs.
We're essentially giving Microsoft the moral high ground even though they do nothing to earn it.
[0]: https://www.mickaelwalter.fr/linux-on-surface-rt/#:~:text=Al...
[1]: https://asahilinux.org/about/#:~:text=Apple%20allows%20booti...
I don't believe that it did. MacOS 1 had drag and drop. You could always drag a document onto a program to open the document with that program. Also, notably, to eject a floppy disk permanently you dragged the floppy disk to the trash can.
Oh - and the popup UI for volume level and WiFi (and bluetooth etc) causes the system to freeze up sometimes, when you open it.
Logging in and the mouse freezes up for multiple seconds.
I'm sure these are not universal to all machines running Windows 11, but for me it's an all together shoddy user experience, and I'm sure there's a few other headaches that I forgot to mention.
This would explain my experience, long time users confuse me when they tell me how bad it is, and maybe they're right. Coming from windows (well a while ago) it's still so nice to use.
I see your point but I kinda disagree. As a daily macOS user (I have a MBP for work and one for personal use), my workflow just doesn't change much (if at all) between updates. If anything, I use less third party software since Sequoia (I replaced Rectangle with native window snapping, which is good enough). Tahoe didn't change anything for me. Working on a MacBook doesn't feel less powerful than before, and everything still "just works". I don't feel like the OS gets in my way at all.
i've seen the poor quality of MacOS recently, but it's relative compared to the despair I feel with windows.
[1]: https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/
I get why it was done this way historically, but they should really make a general setting to fix this behavior, because it really feels like a bug nowadays.
Now that I have been used to both, I think much of the macOS multi-tasking behavior makes very little sense and is a major pain in the ass.
Switching apps instead of windows is extremely dumb and rather useless when there are multiple windows of the same app. Similarly, I have grown to hate the app centric design, you need to micromanage open apps when all their windows have been closed. Now that I'm used to the confortable way software gets closed when the last document is closed on Windows, I routinely forget to quit apps on macOS and end up with a gazillion stuff open routinely. I'm sure Apple likes it this way because you are guaranteed to use more RAM (BTW my experience is that for the same exact hardware, macOS use more ressources) but it's mostly just extremely dumb and painful.
Nowadays when I hear Apple fans rave about the UI/UX of Apple stuff, I laugh my ass off. Most of it is deeply unintuitive and the approach is very often just plain inferior to what Windows ended up with. I actually think it's kind of the point. Macs appeal to "alternative" people who are very contrarian and want to pretend they are special; it's kind of a feature that the thing works completely differently to the established standard (and what most people would expect), you have to be "in on it" and if you pretend it make sense, you get virtual points for being so different and so much smarter than the common folk (who obviously is an idiot with his common Windows).
I think that if Apple would make using 3rd party OSs on their good hardware, macOS would disappear pretty fast. This is why they don't make a lot of effort with Apple Silicon.
Can you change the Home/End behavior on Windows to match the macOS behavior?
(Legit don't know the answer to these, but I suspect not...)
If you can't do this on Windows, why would you expect to be able to do it the reverse direction on Mac? Just because it's how Windows works, and you expect the entire rest of the world to cater to the way you expect things to be when you have to go there?
I only use Windows occasionally, but when I do, I expect it to act like Windows.
https://superuser.com/questions/1758687/how-to-set-enter-to-...
Again, I'm willing to believe that it may be possible—but you have not provided any evidence thereof.
...Sharpkeys is the best remap utility out there. Also, no, you don't want to remap the Enter key, ...
So yes you can.
If you want to consider that "proof" that Windows can do what you describe, then I can't stop you, but even then it seems like a pretty thin endorsement for Windows over macOS.
Personally, the new look is annoying at worst, but it doesn't affect my day to day at all.
The biggest Apple problem is the same as its been for a decade: languishing Apple app development.
Every time I've sold on my Windows laptop it's basically junk value after 4 years. Even when I buy used initially for half price, I'm consistently amazed that they keep dropping to literally nearly zero.
The only way to win is to be the ultimate last in line buyer of the out of date but previously high end Thinkpads and Inspirons for $246 or wherever the EBay auctions terminate.
Looking briefly an X1 carbon thinkpad goes for about £300 four years old but was ~£2000 new so quite a drop.
And 16GiB VRAM insufficient for games:
https://videocardz.com/newz/pcgh-demonstrates-why-8gb-gpus-a...
Also, 3nm M4 is going head-to-head with older Ryzen AI 365 in everything except for power efficiency: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m4-vs-amd-ryzen-...
When compared in multicore against Ryzen AI Pro laptops (high end), even Apple M5 are behind in the dust...
https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_ai_max_p...
Despite awesome progress with its latest ARM processors, Apple was caught behind Ryzen, and is threatened by next generation of Zen processors.
I load my DuckDB into RAM and I'm mindblown at the speed that I can run data analysis on it due to RAM bandwidth and the fact that it's SoC, so almost no bottleneck between RAM and the CPU. Dozens of seconds on a $5k PC compared to milliseconds on a $2k Mac.
Not to mention that Windows 11 is a very weird OS.
Linux is great for some usecases, but doesn't utilize the hardware in the same way as other OSs.
I have all OSs at home and the difference is stupendous.
I'm going to call it and say that you are full of shit. The improvements seem to come from the software: https://duckdb.org/2024/06/26/benchmarks-over-time
If you were to benchmark 2 current comparable machines, the difference would be negligible.
For that price I see multiple gaming 15-16" laptops with good CPU and GPU in the range of 4060-5050 mobile, same memory 16Gb and more storage. With 144-165 Hz FHD gaming displays.
Next I see Vivobook 15" with OLED HiDPI display, top Intel CPU and again more storage.
Yet another smaller Vivobook 14" with weight the same as Mac, good Intel CPU, FHD OLED, more storage again.
Zenbook 14", good Intel CPU, OLED HiDPI screen, even lower weight, more storage.
HP with Snapdragon X Elite CPU is also in the same range, HiDPI screen, low weight.
Basically there are around half a thousand SKUs in that price range (+-50$) and I wouldn't call them mid range really. There many laptops with top CPUs, top GPUs (for that weight) and top display panels.
And I'm not even comparing high memory models. Kit out your Macbook with more RAM and more storage, clearly made out of unobtanium and unicorn tears, and comparison to x86 will fail completely.
Which ones come consistently with excellent battery life/speakers/webcam/display/trackpad/keyboard and are quiet? As for cpu/gpu can you beat performance per watt?
With a PC laptop I often see people optimise for something like a top cpu/gpu/ssd/memory specs but the keyboard (feel & layout)/trackpad/speakers/display/etc. are always variable and many times trash.
The other issue is there's no consistent design team for each model, and a lot of the times you get a half-baked design which manifest into reliability issues. Then compound that with uncooperative vendors which gets their users to troubleshoot/diagnose/and fix their flaws (see [asus]).
PC laptops just do not undergo the same amount of rigour in design, testing, and QA that Apple does with their macbook/powerbook/ibook lines (we never talk about the butterfly era).
At least for laptops, vertical integration will always beat modular/fragmented integration.
[asus]: https://github.com/Zephkek/Asus-ROG-Aml-Deep-Dive
I see now and I think I agree. Base air is premium and compete spec wise with the mid range but at a higher cost.
I'm hoping that rumours are true and a budget macbook using the a19 pro chipset from iphone will mean something at the low to mid price. Basically something that is more attuned for students / casual users that need a computer and not a tablet.
But over time the OS felt like it wasn't there for me to use. Rather Windows feels like it is pointed AT ME. Eventually it felt almost like an advertising supported OS than anything else.
Moved to a Mac and haven't looked back. Performance and battery life were big bonuses too, but honestly weren't why I moved. I just hated using Windows that much.
I'm gonna wait out a bit longer and see if I can get away with using only my Linux Desktop.
It's a nicely put together piece of _hardware_ and firmware, way way better than the garbage Dell laptops I have to use for work, which are heavy and hot and regularly fail to manage basic things like customizing sleep/wake behavior…
… but I personally am completely unwilling to use a Mac unless I'm getting paid and forced to.
I hate MacOS. I hate the UI, I hate the fiddly little ways that it hides information about real file paths and makes it unnecessarily difficult to uncover the tall ones. I hate hate hate all the broken stuck-in-the-80s non-GNU CLI tools, and the kludged-together stupidness of the networking stack compared to Linux.
Windows 11 is arguably worse than MacOS in many of these ways, but Linux with a Gnome or Cinnamon or XFCE desktop is far far better.
I hate the lack of full-size USB ports and HDMI. I don't care if it makes the laptop 3 mm thicker. I want them, in particular to be able to plug in my Logitech wireless mouse adapter and all my 10-15-year-old USB devices which still work fine.
I hate the keyboard and trackpad. I want a pointing stick and a trackpad with physical buttons. I want page up/down buttons and separate delete/backspace.
So no, it isn't cheaper when you look at what people actually buy. It's only cheaper if your data set is full of the unicorn $4k-8k Dell/HP/Lenovo workstations at corpo pricing .
Now that M5 is out and the last of the M1/M2 products are basically cleared out (and made EOL), Apple can stop producing M1 Macbook Airs for Walmart and switch over to the plastic $599 A18 Pro-based Macbook they want to make.
I’m usually in the camp of “things aren’t as bad as you think and they weren’t as good as you remember” but I’ve upgraded from a mid range windows 10 laptop to this and it’s one of the first times I’ve ever experienced a complete step back on what should be a generational update. And that’s before you get to the “quality” of the hardware.
Meanwhile, my 5 year old MacBook pro is faster than either of those machines….
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