South Korea: 'many' of Its Nationals Detained in Ice Raid on Ga Hyundai Facility
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The US ICE raided a Hyundai factory in Georgia, detaining many South Korean nationals, sparking controversy over immigration policy and its impact on US manufacturing. The discussion revolves around the raid's implications on foreign investment and the US economy.
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It's a $7.6 billion factory that produces exclusively electric vehicles, employs "1,400+" (ultimately 8,500 [b]) and is claimed as the "largest economic project in Georgia history". By way of background—here's the wiki,
[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Motor_Group_Metaplant_...
And (lots) more background from IEEE Spectrum (someone had recently posted to HN),
[b] https://spectrum.ieee.org/hyundai-metaplant-georgia ("Hyundai’s Metaplant Seeks Hard-Working Robots")
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/11/australian-w...
This is definitely going to have effects for other companies in the USA. Eg. TSMC in the USA is currently being bootstrapped by a Taiwanese workforce. A similar raid there would just shut down the whole TSMC in USA project. https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/50...
I have worked abroad many times and work permits were always under heavy scrutiny by my own company, to the degree that we send one unhappy soul home mid week because some regulations were not met and he came back week smiling because he got a pay rise as comparable rated as local was a requirement.
If the visa waiver suddenly no longer allows working business trips to the USA this is huge news. The terms of the waiver explicitly state it's allowed but it seems not in practice.
This is a definite "get out now" to anyone on a ESTA in the USA right now. Attending a conference, trade show or consulting on a build out of battery plant?" Get out now.
Have you read the requirements? Business visas or ESTA waivers have never allowed "work", there is nothing sudden about it. You can attend conferences and trade shows and have meetings. You can not "work" though.
I'm not an immigration lawyer so I don't know exactly what the requirements cover and what they don't. You are not allowed to "engage in active employment", but I have been permitted in paid for by my employer to attend meetings with company colleagues which is apparently okay.
I imagine a Korean engineer or project manager visiting to meet colleagues and inspect the site should be okay on a business visa or waiver. One who was there working on plans or overseeing construction might not be. You would hope the company had carefully checked these things.
No one was sold on throwing international professionals in jail just for showing up to do a job they took in good faith. That's clearly wrong, in a way that rounding up the "bad" people isn't. And so it shows up the horrifying implications of current policy.
Take a drive through the streets of Duluth and you will see more signs in Korean than English.
Odds are they just wanted that person gone and the real reason can't be spoken out loud.
911 was an inside job! Or maybe the us of a had an oopsie.
Right now they only get rewarded if they deport or collar somebody, so that's all they seem to care about, and letting in good people is seen as more of a nuisance they must do while trying to get notches for their promotion.
Doesn't seem like much of an incentive to identify good productive people if the incentive scheme is defined as "accept a couple of hundred dollars" vs "don't accept a couple of hundred dollars"...
There are already a few sprinkles here and there to reward them for stopping some of the bad people, but nothing if they let in a good person. $200 is better than nothing...
Or that people responsible for processing visas and checking papers have been restricting numbers despite what their bosses and the wider public ask for. If you want more immigrants than the guidelines and quotas permit, the route to it isn't legalising bribery.
I guess another option might be to give the similar kind of promotional awards to metrics of good immigrants being let in as they do to collaring criminals.
>If you want more immigrants than the guidelines and quotas permit, the route to it isn't legalising bribery.
I'm talking about the officer having an incentive to actually follow the "guidelines." His cost to reject someone is basically zero. He gets rewarded nothing for letting you in. I'm not talking about the officer getting paid to let in people without a visa, I'm talking about having an incentive to actually do his job and not just chase reasons to reject people with no cost to a bunch of false positives.
Edit:
(As an aside, the US actually has a loophole that allows US businesses to bribe foreign officials, including for immigration, to get them to do their job that they were already obligated to do. So really they would just be legalizing it for "them + the rest of world" instead just "the rest of world." Pure American exceptionalism to realize grease payments are legitimate and helpful everywhere but magically the US)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_ActYou won't believe how many borders I've crossed without paying bribes, or for that matter how little attention to metrics or the goodness of people crossing was paid at the one border that did garnish their staff's wages with an unofficial dollar fee for everyone...
While we're telling stories, here's two tales from me
1) Robbed at the Mexican border by police. They didn't even bother asking me, just took it. They get no real reward for jailing people so they were very happy for the $180 and then left me the fuck alone.
2) Enter USA. Passport, everything good, everything legit. Insane border patrol degradingly strip searched me, watched me as I performed bowel movements, jailed me, took me halfway across the state in a prisoner van, and then ran up $1k in medical bills while they search my body for drugs that didn't exist. Unceremoniously dumped at the border with no apologies when absolutely nothing unlawful was found. Still debt collectors chasing me for this.
Now, which was fairer? Definitely getting robbed. The Mexican just wanted his reward. The US CBP could only get a reward by getting me arrested.
Now do both societal models suck? Yes they do. But as a guy on the street, I cannot change society, especially if I am an immigrant presenting at the border to a country I've never been to in my life. What I can do is get robbed of $200, and be in a fairer position than getting robbed of $1k of medical bills and a day in jail I'll never get back, or deported while some officer tries to win some dumb metric.
I want the border officer to have more incentive to rob me than to deport me or send me to prison for false charges.
That is the reality I am dealing with. Not a made up la-la land where top-down society is going to be changed by the immigrant presenting at the border. Legalized bribery is relative fairness in this world we live, compared to many of the actual alternatives many people have on the ground where they are staring at someone who gets to play god and the only question they have is how they can maximize their rewards.
Do you know what the actual laws/regulations are for this stuff? My understanding is that there are in fact valid and invalid reasons for denying entry to a valid visa holder, but that the valid reasons are in practice broad and subjective enough that a CBP officer could nearly always justify their decision (something like "I wasn't convinced they would abide by the terms of their visa").
Of course, what the law is doesn’t really matter anymore.
There are just two kinds of US visas: non-immigrant and immigrant. You are not allowed to immigrate on a non-immigrant visa. "Dual intent" applies only to the issuing of a visa: by default a non-immigrant visa can only be issued to someone who has proven the lack of an immigration intent (which is assumed by default, so one has to prove the lack of thereof in order to get a visa) but there is an exception for some non-immigrant visas, which can be issued without such a proof. This is all "dual intent" means. Not "it's an immigrant visa if I intend it to be one!". These visas are still non-immigrant and carry all the restrictions of other non-immigrant visas i.e. they don't allow immigration. So while it's fine to have an intention to immigrate with such a visa, it's illegal to actually immigrate. This is not some esoteric knowledge and can be found within 15 minutes of internet search and reading.
I imagine the protagonist of the article said something that showed he has immigrated, at least the article describes him as an immigrant - he lives in the US and has nothing to come to in the home country. Thus the reason for denial of entry.
Outside of manufacturing all around me there is talk of ditching Azure, Google and even AWS in spite of massive lock-in because the feeling that the USA is a trustworthy partner is completely gone. You can't just 'joke about invading Greenland' and expect everybody to move on as if it didn't happen. And I'm pretty sure that this isn't just local sample bias either, NL used to be pretty laid back when it came to silly details such as hosting providers and such.
How long until the .COM registry becomes fair game for the nationalists?
I'm not sure if that'd fully alleviate the risk for EU companies & governments, but I'd imagine it alleviates some of it.
Plus, hiring for AWS / Azure / GCP experience is still much higher than for the smaller EU clouds.
The real question is where the CEO lives and whether their family and kids are susceptible to being kidnapped by the US govt.
This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone given that it is an American company. Being a multinational corporation like Microsoft or Mercedes Benz means you have to navigate rather complex legal situations, follow not just your home country's laws, but also the laws of the countries that you are operating in.
The fundamental risk for the EU is the Cloud Act. Since that facility is still owned by a company that is owned by a US company, the Cloud Act applies.
Microsoft tried a similar thing in Germany and it failed.
I personally would be open to trying to change that, but I keep looking at the EU and they don't want to. Many countries are actively hostile to entrepreneurs and eg can charge taxes/fees/exit fees on unrealized cap gains. etc.
I’m an EU citizen, and think life generally was better in Belgium. But the salaries being so poor means I’m unlikely to move back.
They don't seem to want to :shrug:
If it did, and the US ordered Amazon to shut down the region, would it?
If the region kept on operating, and the US ordered Amazon to stop providing software updates, security updates, new license keys, etc. - how long could the region keep running?
How many times have we heard that? He owns the party, the courts, the legislature, and the guns.
Until very recently the USA was the preferred technology partner for many EU ventures and was seen as a trustworthy ally because of mutual history since 1945.
> If you talk to a European as an American they often have a lot more dislike for each other.
A lot more than what? And what exactly did Europe do in recent times that would give American citizens that feeling?
> It hasn’t been a century since they tried to genocide each other
This is a complete nonsense statement.
Lots of talk, but how much action?
People are still building things that depend on American cloud, American controlled OSes (especially for mobile), American supplied hardware, American cloud services (especially AI) and the moves away are tiny by contrast.
Directly from the Windows Forum.
https://www.slashgear.com/1888658/microsoft-office-alternati...
Government's in Denmark, Germany, Spain (on the state level )
A couple more links for companies, but I trust the above is enough? The trend is definitely there and picking up speed.
Edit: a couple of days ago there was a post on HN about SAP spending 20b on cloud https://www.theregister.com/2025/09/04/sap_sovereign_cloud/
1. Denmark’s Ministry for Digital Affairs
2. Two Danish cities
3. One German state
4. The Italian Ministry of defence
5. One Spanish region
They also say French education ministry advised schools to move off the free versions of the "free versions" of MS Office 365 and Google Docs. They do not say anything about how many schools followed the advice, or what they moved to (a paid version of the same? another American supplier?).
Not much for a whole continent.
There will be a lot of resistance to any change. There will be a lot of people like this making the same arguments made here: https://www.theregister.com/2025/08/13/debate_for_microsoft_...
Microsoft has successfully had such decisions reversed in the past:
https://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Munich-Plans-to-D...
Things are different now too because they are not the same, sure. I don't know that people who got it quite wrong are the ones to trust when it comes to predictions of trading and economics this time around.
> Just look at the tourism figures for an idea of the current sentiment.
No doubt a lot of people have changed their minds about visiting US due to Trump -
"Overseas arrivals fell 3.4% in June compared to a year ago, bringing the YTD decline to 1.2%."
But I don't think those kinds of swings are much evidence for larger trade and investment and data sovereignty etc issues.
Everybody, EU, UK, China, Japan, India, Australia, well really just about all countries -- have made a lot of noise and care a lot about relying on US tech, having US companies and by extension the US government control their data, etc. This isn't something they've just started to try fixing in 2016 "because Trump", or in 2025 "because this time he means it". It's been much longer than that. With the exception of probably only China, nobody has been able to make a great deal of progress on it.
What does this mean? Like “the nationalists” would start taking away domain names of people they don’t like or something?
https://newrepublic.com/article/196154/stephen-miller-erupts...
- what a given visa allows
- whether or not someone is a naturalized citizen
- whether or not someone is a citizen by birth
and all kinds of things that seem like they should be core, table stakes knowledge of the job they are supposedly doing.
I'm sure ICE would be the first to point this out in court -- so it's kind of ironic having to point this out here.
Thank goodness for the ACLU, Amnesty International, Democracy Forward, various state AG offices, and the American Bar Association.
ICE agents and other Federal workers are largely insulated from consequences due to Sovereign Immunity protections. only egregious, malicious violations cause them personal liability. and Trump can dole out pardons if it comes to that.
> Thank goodness for the ACLU, Amnesty International, Democracy Forward, various state AG offices, and the American Bar Association.
it's nice that they're fighting, but the Supreme Court has shown a remarkable tolerance for flagrant lawlessness by the Administration (e.g. DHS v. DVD.) sometimes because the Court is sympathetic to Trump's objectives, sometimes because they fear he'll ignore them and do it anyway, and they'll lose the resulting power struggle (nine sedentary septuagenarians vs. the US Armed Forces.)
Reading the article it looks like the problem is he said he "lives" in the US. Technically work visas are for working temporarily in the US, living permanently in the US requires a green card.
Of course they probably wouldn't have deported him for that under Biden, the current administration is just trying to find every excuse to deport to meet quotas.
I'm just saying that I advise all my friends on similar visas to say they're "working" in the US if asked, rather than say "living". Don't give people with power over you any excuse to ruin your life.
ICE folks seem to be sometimes confused about citizen versus non-citizen:
* https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/05/us-citizens-...
* https://globalnews.ca/news/11309378/kenny-laynez-ice-detaine...
Hah, I totally believe it. When I moved to the US on a K-1 fiancé visa, I stood in the non-immigrant line at LAX (moving at its usual glacial pace, well over an hour or more in line), only to be "told" that I was in the wrong line, because I was immigrating to the US (It's not: it's a non-immigrant visa with a defined path to immigration: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat...).
So after realizing I was arguing at a brick wall, I schlepped over to the (thankfully shorter, but still notable) immigrant visa line, waited, waited... with the absolutely predictable result that when I got to the counter I got a withering look and a tone that made it clear the agent felt she was speaking to a slow-minded child. "This is a non-immigrant visa. You need to go to that line." "I know, that line sent me here." "You need to go to that line." Thankfully that time I got a different agent. Nearly missed my connecting flight to Seattle, even though I had planned for a 4.5 hour layover for the visa process.
what'd we bounce into? what did we bounce back from? what effects are you talking about specifically.
I work in aerospace and the sentiment was exactly opposite. People cheered both Trump elections and were dead terrified of a blue win ruining contracts and business.
I don't ask because I am overtly political, I ask because I think it's fascinating that both sides seem to think we're a stone's throw from the apocalypse.. which very much seems to be projected onto the voter base on purpose..
Projected by whom, by what means, and to what end?
Consider that both sides may have legitimate reasons to be concerned with this term that didn't apply to Trump's first term, and that what you see isn't simply some form of mass-manipulation or "projection onto the voter base."
The 2nd term is making fundamental changes to our economy that carry a promise of bearing fruit. Not only are those promises generally contested by economic experts, the short-term results have been unsurprisingly poor.
The effects of this insular isolationism can only be explained by simplicity that doesn't hold up in reality: things will be more prosperous for us if we keep what we have to ourselves. But in truth growth is growth. To build prosperity, we need more production, which means more people. Perhaps your share gets bigger, but the pot gets smaller.
"People coming here" is not inherently good or bad. Some people would be good for the country, and some people would be bad. I'm speaking of individuals here, not groups. The issue is that the electorate at large feels like it has been given a choice between two extremes: "Effectively allow ANYONE to come here and stay as long as they want" and "Don't let ANYONE come here". If you give a people a choice of two extremes, don't be surprised if they choose the extremism you don't like.
Reconceptualize MAGA as voting AGAINST what the Democrats are offering, instead of FOR what Trump is offering, and it might make more sense.
The issue is trust. Why should voters trust that Kamala Harris will implement immigration policies they want? Why should they expect her not to yield to the most extreme elements in her party, which believe that borders are a fiction and should not exist? Look at Barack Obama's "evolution" on gay marriage over the course of his political career. Now take an issue that is far more important than gay marriage - how is she going to stop unlimited unskilled immigration? How is she going to stop fraudulent claims of refugee status? How is the whole immigration problem itself going to be solved, if you posit that every one of the 10 million "unauthorized immigrants", and every one of the refugee claimants, needs multiple appearances in court to resolve their situation?
It seems to me that many US people want their cake and also eat it. Cheap workers are good, but also illegal immigration is bad. You kinda need to pick one.
Every job (as an employee) I've ever had has required me to submit IRS form W-9[0] on my first day of employment (or before). It's a standard part of the on-boarding process. To clarify, the W-9 form is to provide your "Taxpayer Identification number" (TIN) to those who will be handling payroll/tax withholding (that is, your employer).
If you cannot provide a TIN, you are not allowed to begin working. If you don't have a TIN, presumably you don't have the right to work. Or is there something about the UK's processes I'm missing?
[0] https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-w-9
People apparently feel that the Dems are pro 'letting everyone in' -- an understanding created not just by what the Dems say and do on the topic (and others) but what their opponents say too.
If they don't want people to think they aren't pro-immigration then the Dems have dropped the ball on their messaging and actions.
For a similar and reasonably concrete example, the 'Harris is for they/them' ads and their impact is a worthy case study.
You are thinking of a tide that lifts all boats.
The people supporting these policies don't want all boats to be lifted - they want prosperity for themselves and subjugation for anyone else.
The power imbalance is the point. Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.
> it's the fundamental idea that people coming here is bad
Too many people coming here that don't integrate and don't assimilate is bad. A nation cannot thrive with too many conflicting demographics. Multiculturalism working to the degree people want it to these days is a total fantasy. People coming here and extracting value from the economy to send home is also a problem.
> We can't even allow things from other countries to come here.
We don't want to be reliant on other nations. So we incentivize internal production, and disincentivize importing. You can argue that the way that the administration went about it was ineffective at accomplishing that, and that'd be another conversation.
> To build prosperity, we need more production, which means more people.
So incentivize the native population to have more kids. Incentivize technological innovation that doesn't require mass importation of foreigners.
> Too many people coming here that don't integrate and don't assimilate is bad.
But ... why? This is stated as a matter of fact without any real qualification. Why is different "bad." We have far too many examples in our very own country of different - sometimes dissonant - cultures in the same space and still enjoying success as a society and a nation.
> A nation cannot thrive with too many conflicting demographics.
Again ... why not? NYC is our prime example of this working and the city succeeding despite some very, very different cultures side-by-side. There are also monoculture countries that have fallen far behind us to use as counterexamples.
> People coming here and extracting value from the economy to send home is also a problem.
This is my biggest issue. If you work here, you're producing something for this country. What you do with your money is frankly, your business. In either event, you're also spending money on housing, food, etc. You're both producing in this country and contributing to our economy. If you want to send the rest back to Mexico, why is that my business? Why does that hurt me?
The ability to reject someone before they come in, or force them to go away, is usually never an option you have control over - except for immigration policy in a democratic republic. If we weaken the ability to enforce immigration laws, then we're losing one of the strongest tools for maintaining a cohesive community.
If allowing diversity in your community is so great, then why is the blue city Austin, Texas seeing a simultaneous rise in homelessness and drop in property prices?
If allowing immigrants in without any control is so great, then why would rich metropolises like New York and Chicago react so badly to the busses of immigrants sent to them from Texas during the Biden regime?
If your political party refuses to acknowledge that there are immigrants who believe their first loyalty is Sharia Law, the Chinese Communist Party, or whatever else, then why would law-abiding U.S. citizens take your position seriously?
If your vision of the future presents a better world for non-citizens vs. the citizens who have a right to be here, then why would you expect fascism to loose the next election?
Additionally...
If lecturing the largest bloc of US citizens about why they're inherently privileged and guilty is so great, then why did the political party pushing this loose the presidency in 2016 and 2020?
Absolute howler.
It's a (pretty white supremacist-coded) fantasy to say that immigrants don't assimilate. They typically assimilate better than native-born citizens! Meanwhile the most economically dominant states are extremely ethnically diverse, and have been for the past century.
> People coming here and extracting value from the economy to send home is also a problem.
Another example of what would be a knee-slapper if it were a joke, but it is actually white supremacist dog whistle. Immigrants are an absolute boon. For example, per the Congressional Budget Office[1]:
> CBO estimates that the immigration surge will add $1.2 trillion in federal revenues over the 2024–2034 period.
This nativist dreck that has infected the country through algorithmic social media is going to wreck the future of the country, and the sad part is that the declining fortunes it causes will still be wrongfully blamed on immigrants.
[1] https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60569
Trump got a higher percentage of the Black vote than any Republican since Gerald Ford. He nearly won an outright majority of Latino voters. How did a white supremacist candidate manage to do that? False consciousness? Marc Maron: "Progressives have really got to figure out how to deal with this buzzkill problem. You do realize we annoyed the average American into fascism."
Although I know that being politically correct is not in vogue at the moment, I do care and empathize, and try to be accommodating with my language.
What is the preferred way to refer to people who support the transition of the USA into a fascist christian ethnostate?
I...wasn't replying to you?
Anyway I wasn't trying to change anyone's mind. I'm just pointing out facts, not trying to make a conversion from what's obviously someone's religion.
That is an idea. Although we murdered 9/10 of them and relegated the rest to stinking refugee camps (oh, sorry, "reservations") for eight or nine generations. And even today we have a huge problem with murder/kidnapping/disappearance of young women of those groups, which we're apparently unwilling to address.
Any other bright ideas?
Our most prosperous times came in the wake of great immigration waves. I think the expectation is that "assimilation" is:
- a one-way street and - immediate
Neither is true, of course. German assimilation from the mid 19th century took several generations. Same with Italian assimilation in the late 19th/early 20th century.
What are the conflicting demographics ?
US is so big and diverse from its founding - it seems to have worked out pretty well
What about the American rich extracting wealth overseas? Vacations, real estate, yachts constructed in foreign countries, investing in companies in other countries, etc.
I think you're asserting more money leaves the US economy because an average person comes to the US (legally or illegally) and sends a portion of their paycheck back home, but I'd bet American born citizens spend/send far more money out of the country...
It’s a little more complicated than what you wrote, but basically: yes.
[edit] Example study construction: pick some issue where there’s been a heavy propaganda push against it from one party, but a law they opposed passed anyway. Ideally, something like a tax increase, that can directly affect voters in a way they might reasonably be expected to understand and know about. Observe that the (say) tax hike affects not more than 2% of the population you’re studying. Survey. Observe that 35% or 40% of people say the new tax law increased their taxes, and very nearly all of them favor the party that opposed the hike and was claiming or implying it would affect more people than it did.
Repeat similar studies over a period of decades, always with familiar outcomes. Draw conclusions.
Separately, you can probe basic understanding of how our government & various policies or laws work. You’ll find half of everyone not knowing how marginal income tax rates work, that almost all the people who think our foreign aid spending is way too high believe it’s 10x, 20x, 30x higher than it actually is, et c. Generally speaking, voters hardly know how anything works, so of course they buy lies about it. That’s not me being shitty, it’s what the evidence overwhelmingly says is true. And this is far from an exhaustive treatment of alarming traits & behaviors of the electorate.
1. If a democrat is elected, they will take all their guns (their campaign rhetoric keeps saying this will happen, but it continues being no part of democratic presidential campaign messaging, and hasn’t happened the times they warned it definitely would—this one’s fake)
2. Election security. But republicans keep getting into positions to investigate this and either not doing it (because they know it’s BS) or doing it and finding only a handful of mostly-accidental cases that don’t favor either party. Also fake.
3. Leftward shift around acceptance of non-standard sexual and social norms. This one’s real. Whether it’s a problem or just… fine and not worth worrying about? That’s another matter.
4. A bunch of totally wacky shit like litter boxes in classrooms. Fake.
5. Healthcare prices. Real! Democrats also worry about this.
6. Socialism. LOL we’re not remotely near it, very nearly nobody elected in the Democratic Party is left of center-right in most of the rest of our peer states, on economic issues and social safety nets and such. Fake issue.
7. Illegal immigrants increasing the crime rate (fake) and taking our jobs or driving down wages (true, with an asterisk that the effects are complicated, but sure, true) and bringing in drugs (you want citizen drug mules, they cross the border easier, or to just use shipping containers or cargo trucks entering the ordinary way with some greased palms as you can do crazy volume that way, this is fake)
8. Crime being out of control. Broadly, fake. (“But police stats could be…” yeah we have victimization surveys too, people study this and already thought of your objection. Again, fake)
9. Colleges being too liberal. Look at all that “fake” stuff above. Yeah gee I wonder why, dude. Real, but wholly self-inflicted.
10. Rampant fraud in social programs, by the people receiving the aid. This is extremely well-studied. Fake.
11. The budget deficit. Except Republicans are even worse for the budget than democrats, over the last 40 years. By, like, quite a bit. Mostly because they think tax cuts magically pay for themselves, plus Bush’s wars. They mocked the shit out of Gore for talking sense on this topic, and elected cut-taxes-and-spend Dubya. So. Real issue but they are extremely confused about who to vote for to improve it.
There are more but you get the idea. Yes, Fox News and Mark Levin and all them have convinced republicans the world is going to end if democrats win elections. But it’s largely based on completely made-up shit.
Left as an exercise for the reader to make a list for Democrats’ side. Nb how much of its worry about Republicans causing harm by trying to address the fake issues above. Probably most of it. And that’s a real thing that happens, to be worried about.
It was a part of a few Democrat presidential campaigns, like Beto O'Rourke.
> 2. Election security. But republicans keep getting into positions to investigate this and either not doing it (because they know it’s BS) or doing it and finding only a handful of mostly-accidental cases that don’t favor either party. Also fake.
Due to a consent decree from the 80s, Republicans weren't allowed to do anything in this area until a judge finally refused to renew it in the late 2010s.
The key missing piece here is the guns will be taken from law abiding citizens while criminals will be undeterred. Add to this a concern over team blue's rhetoric about replacing police with social workers and mental health advocates.
This is expected behavior, but not to be taken seriously as a moral argument. Preserving liberty and rule of law vs preserving money, so hard to choose...
All most all the replies to your comment have nothing to do with the substance of what you said. The reality is that the us system is predominantly run by bureaucrats which make sweeping changes hard. This is a feature of the system.
This means that whatever party is in charge will have a harder time enacting the crazy.
I never understood the “my side”/“us vs them” from people. There is only one side and we are all on it.
Similarly, Germany was the de facto enemy of the Ally aligned world in the 40s and only a few short decades later best friends with most.
You can identify countless similar atrocities in US history after which relations stabilized within a few years.
Most in life are short term oriented and it's rare that these things produce lasting effects on perception.
Does anyone care or even remotely think about what Bush did as president 20 years ago? Some politically oriented and historically minded folks yes, 99% no.
They really have to be long lasting and persistent transgressions to produce generational distrust e.g. Japan invading China/Korea many times over the last few hundred years.
However the new gen seems far less concerned about this too.
Given Trump's larger than life character/ego/presence, it's more likely that anything he does will be attributed to him instead of the country as a whole. Which makes his actions perhaps even less impactful than a more neutral presenting president doing the same.
If the numbers swing 5%, the US may suddenly have a radical change in foreign policy and governorship.
Seen as recently as the 2024 election.
Regardless, I'm discussing the opinion of the populace, not the political leadership.
You can't endear a country's people to you by installing a puppet government
...and then there's a regime change like "your capital city and every industrial center is firebombed to oblivion, kindergarteners are begging on streets, soldiers are coming back from POW camps to find their home burnt to ground and their whole family dead, and the occupying forces are executing high ranking officers of the previous regime for war crimes, just to drive the point home that their ideology will never be tolerated ever again."
I don't think that's a great example. A few years after the bombs, Douglas MacArthur was ruling Japan. They didn't have much of a choice. Japan was occupied for almost 7 years, had their constitution rewritten to make them essentially reliant on the US for security.
It's undeniable that by and large Japanese sentiment towards the US bounced back quickly, despite a traumatic and expansive war
Western and Japanese companies alike started moving production outside Japan once wages started eating into profit margins. Today, underemployment is common in Japan and the low birth rate is one of several symptoms of the economic stagnation that began in the early '90s. Populist governments won't be far behind.
My understanding is that generally they expected a MUCH more severe set of penalties and occupation after losing - especially given the unconditional surrender, and instead got a stable and functional provisional government for the next 7 years.
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Basically - Japanese sentiment is not a parallel to this. That time:
1. Japan started hostilities with a surprise attack
2. Lost, complete with unconditional surrender
3. Was then occupied by a government that was more stable, left much of the existing civilian infrastructure in place, and forgave many key figures (not the least of which was the emperor)
4. Then that government helped them roll out "new deal" style social reforms.
That is absolutely, utterly at odds with the current situation. There - the Allied powers were relatively graceful, culturally aware, and interested in a stable, functional government.
Here - We're insulting our friends, from a position where there's no moral high ground to stand on. Personally, I don't think they'll forget so quickly, and I think things will get much worse if the US continues down this path.
Can we rebuild those relationships? Sure, seems likely on a long enough timespan, but it takes a hell of a lot more effort to get it back than it does to throw away.
Then Trump decided his shitty Nobel Prize mattered more and threw 20 years of hard work in the dump.
The consensus in India is that America is perfidious. You claim that countries have goldfish memories, but that doesn’t seem to be the case with Indo-American relations. It was immensely hard to build this relationship and easy to burn it.
But who knows? Maybe you have an insight into how Indian people think.
If they don't they are idiots. To name a few things: 9/11, the foreign policy disaster and money pit of the Iraq War/GWOT, the easily-avoidable GFC.
Those were both significant events in their own right and fundamental causes of the Trump presidencies.
Others trying to be him have not been able to replicate his success electorally. Lowest common denominator celebrity is key to his success.
Theres a good case to be made that he's an aberration and there won't be another demagogue after him to so effectively capture his audience and survive the corruption and incompetence that follows.
He has potential heirs that are smarter and more disciplined than him, but ironically that path doesn't lead you to a life of pop culture/paparazzi/TV celebrity.
Thats not to say we don't deserve to have lost significant trust and respect. But if you take the long view, it's not an extrapolation of this.
Neither is encouraging for the future.
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