Sam Altman's Dirty Dram Deal
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OP is also marginally underestimating the impact this move would have on Google's competitiveness - they are making huge gains prototyping at light speed; this will halt their AI hardware acceleration plans pushing them back into slower software development on ever aging hardware.
It also shows why Nvidia is not afraid of competitors coming out with new desgings that obsolete their hardware: what good are superior designs with no fabs to produce them?
There are some negative elements of captialism that we might simply have no reasonable regulatory apparatus to deal with. Preventing indivduals and companies from having so much market power in the first place seems to be the only thing that can work consistently.
Will also be interesting if Sony/Microsoft was planning on releasing a next-gen system anytime soon, and I wonder if this will affect Apple's hardware at all.
How'd that turn out? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday#:~:text=On%20J...
Much more likely this is just a detail of the contract so that OpenAI can guarantee allocation. I would be surprised if the actual wafers entered OpenAI hands before being fully packaged.
It would require half of one distribution center of a major retailer.
That also meets the specifications of a clean room, and is actively maintained as one?
If OpenAI bought 40% of the annual capacity of finished memory, with the goal of using it in their server farms ASAP, that's one thing.
But unfinished wafers that still need to be protected to finish the manufacturing process, that OpenAI itself does not have any capability to do?
That to me looks like a preemptive strike against competitors, which also affects any other industry that requires RAM, in an attempt to develop a monopolistic position.
I can't see how this isn't a massive national security issue for any country that needs devices requiring RAM for new systems and maintenance of existing ones (pretty much all of them...) to manage critical infrastructure, national defence, public and social services, and so on.
Also consider:
Warehouses of small, high-value items that are fungible and untraceable.
That will create multiple huge targets for a big heist. And they'd best have good eyes on their security people too.
Sounds like something big enough for organized crime to target.
It's becoming increasingly clear that OpenAI is going to get lapped by Google on technical merits. So this is the "code red" solution? Supply shenanigans?
They are getting beat in the developer market by Anthropic. And getting beat on fundamental tech by Google. This is a company whose ostensible mission is to "benefit all of humanity" ...
Do you have a citation for what law is being violated? Or just vibes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation
From the article
> OpenAI isn’t even bothering to buy finished memory modules! No, their deals are unprecedentedly only for raw wafers — uncut, unfinished, and not even allocated to a specific DRAM standard yet. It’s not even clear if they have decided yet on how or when they will finish them into RAM sticks or HBM! Right now it seems like these wafers will just be stockpiled in warehouses – like a kid who hides the toybox because they’re afraid nobody wants to play with them, and thus selfishly feels nobody but them should get the toys!
I guess we'll have to see if they in fact just keep "unfinished" RAM in warehouses like the article says and not roll them out into datacenters for a legitimate use as they are finished.
It even seems to skirt around notions of illegal vertical integration. For example in this address from 1998, a former FTC commissioner describes several types of illegal "vertical alliances", all of which rely on both the upstream supplier and the downstream consumer being aligned in anticompetitive intent, which (if the article is to be believed) they couldn't have been here because there are two suppliers who were unaware of each other's deals.
Is it really not illegal to just buy up a huge chunk of a critical input for an industry and stockpile it for the purpose of locking out competitors? Seems hard to imagine that some robber baron of the 19th century didn't already do this.
They tried it and lost their shirts. When you hoard a critical input, that input doesn't just disappear. You spend huge amounts of money pushing the price up, and then the market price turns against you as people finally figure out that the hoarding was just a stunt, that you don't really have a higher-valued use for the stuff you hoarded, and all of it is going to be right back on the market sooner or later.
and here's a followup from the same commissioner https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/speeches/vertical-issue...
There are similar laws prohibiting the manipulation of commodity markets but I do not believe a US court would find RAM to be a commodity.
There's also the question of if OpenAI operated In good Faith (from a search: "Another sign of bad faith is withholding crucial information..."), and- of course- the South Korean government can step in as well. In fact- as a worldwide issue- any sufficiently large State(or group of States) can take issue with it.
OpenAI will have issues if they find themselves unable to buy power equipment (Schnider, Eaton). Or, perhaps anybody associated with OpenAI management or funding is arrested the second they step foot in Europe. This is already a nightmare of an International Incident.
Obviously kind of a moot point because whether it violates antitrust law or not, what is guaranteed is the US Government is not going to do anything
for what? unimportant
Should be, as in, new legislation should criminalize it? What's the generalized principle? Or should be, as in existing law should cover it? And if so, what law / how?
The way it works is that OpenAI will have the DRAM delivered to Nvidia/AMD/Broadcom to be assembled into the racks that OpenAI buys.
RAM manufacturers are a de facto duopoly manipulating the market to gouge prices. It's not that difficult to see.
There is nothing here worth invoking the legal system over. OpenAI can buy huge amounts of RAM if they want. Good luck to them, hope it works out, looks like an expensive and risky manoeuvre. And we're probably going to have a RAM glut in a few years looking at these prices.
There is a certain level of crazy that crowds can find when people identify something as a fundamental industrial product critical to national security and simultaneously someone is calling for companies buying a lot of it [0] to be made illegal. If something is critically important to industry then companies should be encouraged to dump as much money as they like in the sector. Otherwise industry will suffer.
[0] And OpenAI is probably going to turn out to be closely associated with US national security too.
It is the malicious purpose and the clear harm to most of America that ought to provide motivation to enforce any law this is at odds with.
Pretending computing is a luxury in 2025 is nonsense as is ignoring the obviously manipulative purpose that is so clear.
There are about five billion smartphone users worldwide. An increase in the price of RAM will, for a start, increase costs for those 5 billion, as smartphones do not last forever.
Um... What?
Pretty much every adult owns one or more items with DRAM chips in them and depends on businesses that use even more.
The supply crunch will effect a surprising spread of the economy given how ubiquitous computers are now.
Looking at delivery dates, the dram price blip could last over a year and the price blips further down could last even longer.
Memory is everywhere. In computer, phones, fridges, TVs, cameras, toys, watches, all kinds of home and industrial appliances.
If the OpenAI-induced supply crunch causes the AI bubble to burst, I may drop dead from irony-poisoning.
Interesting in that I thought about their purchase of $1B of solid state memory at the height of their iPod run. The difference is that Apple had a hit product that was selling as quickly as they could be produced and there was a legitimate need if they wanted to meet the demand.
FTFA:
> No, their deals are unprecedentedly only for raw wafers — uncut, unfinished, and not even allocated to a specific DRAM standard yet. It’s not even clear if they have decided yet on how or when they will finish them into RAM sticks or HBM!
I don't consider this legitimate. It's not illegal, but it sure seems unethical and scummy and it pissed me off. OpenAI throwing its weight around is harming ordinary people who aren't competing with them.
What if OpenAI expects to be in the same boat? Their "hit product" is just R&D and training for new very large models. Of course if they're wrong, they've just set a huge pile of their own cash on fire.
The world runs on computers. It is as essential as oil for the functioning of societies. Increase in silicon costs is going to increase costs unilaterally across the board. It happened during the pandemic and something similar will happen now. If anything it should be a wake up call to countries to start thinking about securing their own supply chains.
It's raised the price of my in-progress workstation build by several thousand $, and now I'll likely not be able to build it. :(
I _really_ hope it's a "short term" price spike, but I kinda doubt it. :( :( :(
This is an incorrect and incredibly out of touch comment fragment. Computer part derivatives are an essential item to economic activity in most countries.
I paid almost every month since gpt4 came out but mine lapsed when Gemini was released and I haven't even thought of logging in.
The subscribers are exactly the users who would migrate to Gemini. Then your left with the prospect of this giant free chatgpt user base setting money fire.
Wouldn't be shocking at all looking back 10 years from now that maybe the path that Altman stays fired would have been the better path.
Mmmh.
Between Google, other labs and China the risk of commoditization is climbing and so why would investors continue to throw money at them? Kind of the same problem people are starting to bring up regarding Nvidia order book no? Do SoftBank and Oracle have $500B in cash to go through, or does it count on new investors coming in to not implode?
Edit: From the Stargate page on Wikipedia it seems indeed there is a big uncertainty regarding financing:
> On August 7, 2025, Bloomberg reported that the project had not started and no funds were raised to meet the project's initial $500 billion budget. Market uncertainty, American trade policy, and AI hardware valuations caused the delay according to a Bloomberg News report
This seems to almost be mentioned off-hand, but isn't this a really bad and un-free market? Korean companies are afraid of doing business with Chinese companies because of the US, because of retaliation? This was not the "free and global market" I thought we were supposed to have at this point.
Countries decided the extent to which they’d like to engage in free trade together. It is a knob that we’d hope our leaders would turn strategically. (Regardless of whether or not we think our leaders actually are doing a good job of it…).
Is the goal also to hurt South Korean businesses and all businesses in the world, just to "pwn China" basically?
There is always a ton of risk involved with protectionism. Primarily whether your taxpayer-subsidized domestic jobs and hypothetical national security risk significantly outweighs all the very real economic costs.
I'd love to hear your examples of this happening. For $22K you can get a BYD Dolphin Surf in Europe. And that's a pretty small car. What are you paying $60K for in the US that's the same size?
Maybe let's try a different match up. The BYD Atto 3 seems to start around 40K in Europe. It's smaller than a Model Y, and people say it is slightly lower in market position, but close enough. The Model Y starts at around 40K as well.
Are the comparisons between expensive US cars (remember the average is just above 50K, and plenty of perfectly good cars like a Honda Civic can be had for half that) and Chinese cars in China?
So it's really just tariffs and taxes making it that expensive elsewhere.
To be fair, @dmix explicitly mentioned the $20k price was for other countries
I'm not saying it justifies the price difference, but there are changes between the cars.
So no, they are the Euro spec car.
Trump's America First in practice relies on a near-sided and overly simplistic understanding of the world (Win-lose, whatever is benefitting others must be a hinderance to the USA). Hence fighting the tariff wars against allies (Canada, Eu). Hence destroying Nato' credibility that was carefully built for 70 years. Hence ceasing to be Ukraine's ally (but continuing to be a trade partner, that sells weapons as long as Europe is paying). Hence helping Putin. Hence instigating problems with Taiwan if that means that TSMC will move some manufacturing to the USA.
It's a really miopic view, but at least on their part the behavior is intentional (consequences, on the other hand, are surprise for them).
Perhaps you haven't noticed but the pendulum has been swinging the other way for a while already and has a lot of momentum behind it. It's mentioned off-hand because the ongoing return to a multi-polar global order is covered elsewhere already, across dozens of articles every day.
Does it? It's mostly the US pushing against globalism right now. Trump managed to unite almost the entire world.
Left-wingers are only globalist in the most literal sense of "well, I'd like it if we got rid of these migration barriers". "Internationalist" would be a better term for them.
Globalist Nationalism is an ideology of contradictions. It purports that, no really, you're the real master race and everyone else's just a stooge that'll get taken out the moment we can get rid of these pesky liberals with their freedoms. They need shittons of spatial partitioning to make that work.
The phrase "left-winger" is also kind of vague; lefties in America are very specifically left-libertarians and it was specifically that strain of leftism I was referring to. A lot of, say, European lefties are far less internationalist and far more authoritarian for my tastes. There's an argument in here that American lefties haven't ironed out the contradictions in their political ideologies yet. A lot of the support for free migration from American lefties and liberals only started because Trump took the opposite position and did so extremely. But I'd rather that than, say, mainstream American politics' obsession with endianness[0].
Additionally, the welfare state is currently being crushed under the weight of a bunch of retiring Baby Boomers. Which isn't a uniquely American problem. Every rich country with a welfare state has too many old people in the system. That's due to demographic collapse, which is itself a consequence of children being too expensive to raise in a world where effective birth control is easy to access. Immigration can actually make this less of a problem, by adding to the tax base. They don't even have to be highly-skilled immigrants, they just have to be generating taxable income that goes into the welfare system.
The Globalist Nationalist argument is that this is bad because Those People™ are criminal or uncivilized in some way. But that begs the question: where do we find more taxpayers to keep our welfare state solvent? The answer is to take away birth control and hope enough horny teenagers get pregnant to fix the shortfall eventually. Except this doesn't solve the affordability problem[1]. So all those kids are going to be in broken homes or no home at all. This creates a crime wave. In fact, this is exactly why Those People™ from Those Countries™ are so damned scary!
tl;dr The integrity of the welfare state is only tangentially related to the openness of its migration programs, because migrants can be both beneficiaries of and contributors to the system.
[0] In the original sense of endianness being a culture war over what side to break eggs on.
[1] The affordability problem is itself a cluster of related cost diseases endemic to urban centers. More people want to live in the city than there is housing available for them, so prices have to rise until somebody loses. And increasing the housing supply creates further demand for land, construction labor, and materials. That raises cost, meaning that housing has to get more expensive to make new units economic. And as housing gets more expensive, there's less children being born, which means less people working to build that housing, which makes the housing more expensive, so there's less children being born...
Admittedly, Europe was being slow to reconfigure until finally forced to do so this year but they've jumped on board now too.
And in typical historical fashion, everybody with less little influence/independence to project their own sphere are now cautiously but attentively jockeying to accumulate the best deals they can gather among those they do.
The world is far from united, even if many do happen to share opinion about the administration.
This is completely wrong. China and Russia are very much working against it.
We have been slowly moving towards centralized computing again since 2010s
With governments backing this trend of AI with military funds it is only natural for the others to follow and making computing even more centralized.
By 2020s, Nvidia announce the plan to become more b2b only and then at some point a cloud only company, not even selling the assets.
I don't mean you won't have your smartphone, but it is a dumb terminal compared to the capacities you'll have and maybe need daily.
Far from it. Knowledge is power, but too much data can easily obfuscate whatever small signals of knowledge have been captured. Right now, data mostly requires power.
When that happens, it becomes knowledge.
An example of that, is that many car insurance companies are known to buy driving data from car dealers and mechanic shops to reveal driving habits of previous drivers.
For the most part, free and open trade is beneficial to the Western world order. But I think it's quite straightforward to imagine conditions under which it is not, many of which are currently in effect.
US control of EUV technology is probably the most obvious present one, but limitations on nuclear proliferation are an obvious case where there is no free market. Even selling civilian nuclear technology is controlled.
You may think of it analogously to Free Speech. The dream is complete and total expression. The reality is that if you allow convincing enough liars, your society starts to falter. Consequently, certain kinds of expression are not permitted - notably defamation. Think of it as more a North Star navigation ideal constrained by the trade winds (I suppose the Westerlies would be more relevant, but I couldn't resist the pun).
If you want a couple of reads, I enjoyed A Splendid Exchange about the history of trade, which I followed by the resurgent-though-once-dismissed Zeihan's Disunited Nations (which is more a hypothesis book than a history book).
All industrialized countries participate in large-scale state industrial policy. It's a pre-condition of industrialization. A nation cannot industrialize without large scale state policy. And once industrialized, all nations maintain large-scale state industrial policy. Are you saying there never has or can be a "free and global" market? Or just when china does it?
> You may think of it analogously to Free Speech.
It's nothing like free speech as free speech is a constitutional right granted within a nation.
> The reality is that if you allow convincing enough liars, your society starts to falter.
That's rich coming from someone peddling zeihan. I've always wondered what kind of morons actually believe his nonsense. Now I know.
What? From funding the Lewis&Clark missions, to forcing japan open, to clearing out the natives for railroad companies, to helping found colleges ( check out many engineering/tech focused colleges like MIT was founded in the 1800s ). You can even argue that american independence and the civil wars were about expanding state industrial policy.
> The federal government was quite weak in the 19th century
So "weak" that we went from 13 small states on the east coast and expanded 3000 miles all the way to the pacific? What the hell are you talking about?
> I can't think of any explicit policies it established that were intended to foster industrial capacity.
The US became the dominant industrial power in the 1800s and you can't think of any policies that helped? You think all the territories in the ohio valley, texas, oklahoma, california, etc chock full of oil were just given to americans by overly generous natives, brits or mexicans? Are you a moron?
If the US didn't have state industrial policy, the US would have never become and industrial power. We'd have just gone down the jeffersonian agrarian paradise road.
Also, as an aside, yes, most of the American West was largely lucked into. America was lucky that France and Spain were dirt broke, that Britain was distracted by continental conflicts with France and Russia, and that native societies had been decimated by disease and a subsequent collapse in governance. That's not to say that there wasn't smart, farsighted leadership in American government, but it was a weak power.
But having access to large tracts of land with resources ( like oil ) is. I guess you missed the "chock full of oil" part.
> (see South Korea).
Perfect example. How did Korea industrialize? By being annexed by the japanese ( who went about acquiring tons of land with resources ) and then being annexed by the US with our global network of resource links.
> Also, as an aside, yes, most of the American West was largely lucked into.
It wasn't "lucked into". We won wars against the british and spanish and mexico. And we intimidated the french. And we fought wars against the natives.
> but it was a weak power.
Yes. Because major world powers cede a continent sized piece of territory with an infinite amount of resources to a "weak power".
If the US was a "weak power", then the french, british and russian empires in the 1800s must have been a joke.
The characters and plots are obviously all exaggerations and fabrications of reality but there are many interesting themes in his novels.
Of course, reading him like he is Edward Gibbon would be pretty foolish but The End of the World is just the Beginning is a great book.
did AI write this?
The global market is anarchy in the literal sense and no one is bound by a higher authority. Coercion and cartels are part of a free market.
Economic efficiency actually requires a lot of rules and regulations to achieve the free market playground we like to imagine.
China did not let US companies establish completely foreigner subsidiaries, yet the US granted it MFN status.
However, the US had protective tariffs since ever too.
Not to mention the controls on migration and remote work (which is a very significant drag on economic growth, as it prevents more efficient allocation of labor).
The globalized free market wasn't all it was cracked up to be, so 90s-era understandings of how things are "supposed" to be will need to be revised.
wtf. life sucks.
I'm not thrilled about this genre of "guy I don't like does totally normal thing so it's bad". It's too engagement baity.
That is not "totally normal".
I mean with that many wafers, I guess it is possible that they’d be doing something pretty custom with the things…
Didn't they announce some kind of AI-silicon recently? Wouldn't it be for that?
Nevertheless, unless you’re not storing them in a clean room of appropriate class (or in a vacuum pack), assume 18 months for undiced wafers.
In terms of size, I would think that stored in cassettes or carriers a vacuum sealed, it shouldn’t be too much. A 25 wafer pack is about half meter cube? A 40ft shipping container is about 68m^3. So one container can store about 140 packs of 25 wafers each. That’s 3500 wafers. They’re talking about 900k wafers. That’s about 260 containers. Call it 300 with extra space and stuff. Not exactly hard to provision.