Rog Xbox Ally Runs Better on Linux Than Windows It Ships With
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The ROG Xbox Ally handheld gaming device runs better on Linux than on the Windows it ships with, sparking debate about the state of Windows gaming and the potential for Linux to become a viable alternative.
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Also, why didn't they install SteamOS directly? https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42...
I love it, but there's probably not a whole bunch of reason to run it on things in other form factors.
I work as a sysadmin during the day, fixing PCs and stuff, and I really don't want to continue doing that after I get home - I just want to pick up my controller, put my feet up and get straight to gaming without having to worry about updates and other PC annoyances.
The best part is, if on the rate ocassion an update breaks something,I can easily boot straight to the previous image from the boot menu, without needing to run any commands or do anything special post-boot. And with Bazzite (and other uBlue distros), I can go back upto 90 days worth of images (3 previous local images + older images pulled from the cloud). I can also pin a known "good" image so it'll always be available in the boot menu. Essentially I get a rock solid unbreakable system, which is great because after a hard day's work, I really don't have the patience to deal with any PC issues at home.
I should have clarified that I meant the performance benefit of SteamOS over Bazzite specifically.
The whole OS is made for controllers, no need for a mouse/kb for anything.
It's not "we have SteamOS at home" - it's more like RedHat vs CentOS
[1]https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/handheld/legion-go-s/len106g0...
[2]https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/13/24219469/valve-steamos-as...
Valve moves slowly to add support for more devices, etc, whereas the Bazzite devs can move faster.
e.g.
Bazzite does a weekly release of a stable OS candidate, whereas Valve often takes months, if not up to a year, for to release a stable-channel OS update.
Edit:
Also, Valve tends to wait for proper kernel interfaces for functionality like controlling TDP, RGB, fans, etc. Whereas Bazzite devs are fine with using tools in userspace to directly talk to hardware, etc.
While I do think Valve's approach is better for long-term maintainability, Bazzite will always have the speed advantage because it can hack together a solution via userspace applications.
> Average FPS gain (Linux vs Windows)
> +6.6 FPS (+13.47%)
Taking the average of that is even more meaningless. If they insist in comparing FPS instead of frame times, they should have simply compared the two harmonic means.
Thats only 4 generations of improvement for intel CPUs. :(
“Up to” is the maximum number.
“Average” is the sum of all the data points divided by the quantity of data points.
[Edit] The answer you’re probably looking for is I/O. The PS5 is much faster than the Series X in terms of getting stuff off disk and actually using it. That more than compensates for the small speed advantage the Series X has.
if you polish a turd, it's still a turd.
Practical is a term I'd use as win32 has managed to survive to this day but that came with a boatload of hacks and problems. It's ugly.
Yes, win32 is ugly, and so is x86.
And granted, those same friends and I still play Halo Infinite, but we're all on PCs. Nobody bothers with the goddamn XBox.
These days most consoles run fairly standard hardware and games are programmed to be generic and published on every console.
Playstation has LibGNM and LibGNMX, Switch has OpenGL and Vulkan but you really want NVN for every drop of performance
https://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?actio...
And then the same error message started showing up on Win10. Thankfully the same patch still works...
There is some WIP to address it for Nvidia, but it requires new Vulkan features.
See: https://indico.freedesktop.org/event/10/contributions/402/at...
Still, Proton is an amazing tool and these days it just works so well. The only games that don't work are those that are intentionally broken by invasive kernel-level anticheats. I won't be buying Battlefield 6, too bad for EA, there are now thousands of other games to play on Linux.
Here[1] is the full presentation and the slides[2] from it.
[1] https://video.tuwien.ac.at/events/xdc/v/OlwauRVEIGa
[2] https://indico.freedesktop.org/event/10/contributions/402/at...
If it'll further increase performance beyond that remains to be seen. I suspect there will always be some amount of overhead, although at least with earlier versions of DirectX it is quite minimal already.
My rambling is really just to say: Yeah, linux has come a long way, especially for gaming and day to day use. The work Valve and others have done to make stuff just run and work is astonishing.
Gaming has improved by leaps and bounds in the last few years, but non-gaming desktop use has been solid for ages. What little annoyances and bugs and issues kept you going back to Windows?
I found Windows 10 was the first bearable Windows, that I could use without wanting to go back to Linux all the time. Not great, but bearable.
I still used Windows for gaming throughout the whole time. (Until about a year ago, when I accidentally nuked my Windows installation, and then never bothered to set it up again..)
Depending on the job I had at the time, I also used Windows at work.
> As for all the linux a-holes out there, please STFU, I don't wanna hear "winblows sux" or "this distro is better", it's why I didn't specify what specific distro I use. That toxic fanboyism is what keeps people away from seeing it as a viable usable OS.
I've mostly heard that until perhaps about 10 years ago. I'm sure these people are still out there, but it seems to be much less common these days.
I use Arch Linux for what it's worth, but almost any distro can install almost any program (and they all run the same kernels), so it mostly comes down to what package manager and configuration system you want to use, and whether you like the defaults that come with your distribution.
I'm still having some trouble with screen tearing in some games on Linux, alas. I suspect these problems have been ironed out for the more mainstream window manager setups (like whatever you get in Ubuntu by default, instead of me using XMonad), but so far I couldn't be bothered to fix it, yet.
I haven't tried Wayland, yet.
Windows games worked on Linux for years with different levels of success, the difference is that now they work much much better and at times better than on Windows itself :)
The original Ally software launch was a disaster. Unbelievable amount of bugs and overall terrible user experience. After 6+ months of updates it was decent.
I figured, hey, maybe they figured it out in advance this time? So I pre-ordered an Xbox Ally.
It is a complete disaster in terms of software. It took 90 minutes to setup and download initial updates on a Google Fiber connection. Things break constantly.
The other day, I got a new error, "Something went wrong and your PIN isn't available." When I try to click anything, it just goes black. After 6 or 7 restarts, it randomly glitches out and takes me right to desktop without any PIN.
It is just constant bullshit like this. The entire experience breaks over, and over, and over. I hate it so much. Back to Steam Deck.
See the mess on Windows development experience since Project Reunion reboot, or how WinRT transition was completely mismanaged.
But hey Satya got his bonus.
The long-term end goal for Microsoft is to lock down Windows and force signed code. Once users are locked in, expect service fees to sharply rise just to use Windows. People should not fall for it. Leave Windows for crusty corporations that love their office 365 employee spy platform.
Also, the face buttons are just to far to the right. My thumb will begin aching after 15 mins or so. Other controllers are far more comfortable.
To be honest. I like my Playdate more than my Steam Deck.
Most games 'Just Work' these days on my Linux desktop.
Why is it insurmountable? It's not like it's impossible for the companies that produce anti-cheat solutions to get them running on Linux.
The only way it changes course is an enormous rug pull that removes most of the differentiation between PC and Console gaming and you end up with Steam as a dying product unable to compete with either other modes of PC gaming or the dominant console players. (Sadly that's basically what I expect when gaben retires)
I don't think Linux is a differentiator for the Steam Deck. It's obviously essential as a technical foundation though, similar to how it’s essential to Android phones.
But locking it down with DRM won't affect gamer interest in the platform as long as the games are still cheap, plentiful, and run well.
Linux can lie about anything.
It's possible to change windows, just a lot harder. Unless you are talking about secure boot, but that's available to Linux just as much as to Windows.
> Linux can lie about anything.
Linux should lie about being Windows then.
The anti cheat developers rely on Microsoft asserting that other cheats aren't loaded prior to the anti-cheat in the kernel. There is no such entity in Linux to attest that a particular linux install is not modified to load the cheats into the kernel before the anti-cheat.
Now, such an entity could be created, and a linux distro released that is signed by that entity, and then the anti-cheat could work on that distro. That would require you to only use that particular distro, though, and you would be limited in how you could change the kernel.
So far, there has not been the push needed to make that happen.
Playing Streetfighter 2 with people you know should still be fun?
One of those experiences can't replace the other.
I am married with two young children. All of my video game time comes in the hour or two after they go to bed and before I go to bed. I don't have friends around at that time, yet I still want to get some good multiplayer gaming in.
Online matchmaking is amazing these days. You are able to match up against people of about your skill level at any time of day. That experience is magical, compared to the matchmaking from 25 years ago where you would try to find a random lobby, and the players might be amazing or terrible.
I know what I like.
I’ll be honest, no matter how unpopular it is I’m really sorry, but those kind of solutions genuinely are the only way. I’ve said it before on HN, but we really do try everything. And not having anything leads to some of the worst experiences possible.
If you genuinely have a better solution, then you are more than welcome to enter the industry and make a significant amount of money.
Hell, I’ll offer you a job right now.
Oh but then you can't make all of your revenue on stuff like gambling for textures that anyone could just mod in like they used to.
I doubt it will show what you expect, but hey, I’ve been wrong before.
See, this is my problem. I have no interest in online multiplayer, so anti-cheat is purely of negative value to me.
I understand the problem with cheaters, and if I did play multiplayer games, I'd want every effort taken to eliminate cheating.
I'd be perfectly happy if I could uncheck the "anti-cheat and online capabilities" checkbox in the game installer (or have it default unchecked when the OS indicates that anticheat isn't supported), and I could go on my way and play my single player game.
IMO that's a better solution technically, and for me personally, but I don't know that there's much money to be made in sales to single-player-only non-microtransaction-consuming gamers who were otherwise forgoing games.
No game developers of seriously looking at enabling even in the cases where it is extremely easy and trivial to enable, because the additional support button isn’t considered worth it for the number of users as they might get.
so when I say it’s defeatist, what I mean is all you have to do is vote with your wallet enough and the games will follow. I know this an absolute fact because I’ve been in this conversation many times.
Your options are,
1. Buy Windows. Means you has absolutely no control.
2. Promote the development of anti-cheat on the linux, where you can not install it because you don’t like it.
No idea that you’re arguing against me, when all I’m doing is arguing for increased amount of freedom is tad silly.. no?
In fact, it’s one I chose at home (option 3) because I was unwilling to compromise my computing environment just so I could browse the internet and program on the same device I play games with.
If publishers were comfortable developing for Linux, maybe that would change, I don’t think it has to be so binary as “either you have total control or none at all”, especially since there’s so many non-free components to your system already and multiplayer games are a luxury product (and thus; totally optional).
Battlefield 6 requires a rootkit? Battlefield 1942 and 2 are still fun and don't. I've had only Linux on my home computers for like a decade now, and Windows has since then become unusable so I'm not going back. Why would I buy software that won't run?
Those two desires (to play Madden and FIFA/FC and play online without cheaters) requires that I not simply refuse to buy those games.
Ie for games that previously you were on the fence about, a look at whether they play or do not play well on the Steam Deck or Linux in general can push you over the fence (on way or another).
I am not sure what behavior on the margins I can change that would change the situation. My favorite games can't be played on Steam Deck. Like I said, I have been playing these games for 30 years. I am not about to change my favorite games just so I can make a point about the importance of Steam Deck compatibility. That won't change anything other than I won't be able to play my favorite games anymore.
Honestly, I am happy that they have added proper PC support along with cross platform play at all. Most sports games focus almost exclusively on consoles, and most of the player base play on consoles. Before they added cross platform gameplay a few years ago, it was really hard to find games when I would try to play online. Now it is easy.
The reason they are able to offer cross platform support is because of the anti-cheat.
Take. for example, the NBA2k series, which I used to play a lot; the anti-cheat for PC is awful. They don't allow cross platform play because of that, so games are hard to find and every few games you play a game against a guy who is 12 feet tall and hits every 3 pointer from any spot on the court. It was so bad I stopped playing entirely. For years I settled on playing on XBOX, but i eventually got annoyed enough i stopped buying the game completely.
Oh, I wasn't suggesting you change your favourite games or how you play them.
But I was assuming you are playing more than just your three favourite games over and over again?
> For years I settled on playing on XBOX, but i eventually got annoyed enough i stopped buying the game completely.
This is an example where you changed your behaviour on the margin.
Or another example: if one cupcake tastes massively better to you than another, you are going to buy that. But if there are two drinks that could go about equally well with your cupcake (Pepsi and Coke, say) and you are fairly indifferent between them otherwise, you'll probably going to have a look at the price or what's more convenient etc.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginalism
That's highly debatable. How do you know for certain they aren't using any undetectable cheats (like a driver-level cheat, say an aim assist) or a hardware level cheat? Cheating aside, how do you know that they aren't better than you simply because they've got better hardware? How do you get satisfaction from playing such games when there's so many variables that can affect gameplay that goes beyond human skill that you can't do anything about?
But that’s beside the point. Gaming companies who produce competitive online games know that the competitive scene will die very quickly if there is rampant, unaddressed cheating. This is why kernel-level anticheat exists. When you have a free to play game banking on the competitive scene & selling cosmetics, cheating is an existential threat to your entire business model, and players demand you do something about it.
Valorant players BY FAR don’t care about kernel-level anticheat, but do care about cheaters getting detected and banned. People put a lot of time into ranked matches, and enjoy the game a lot.
Does riot have other options? Sure, and it probably uses a lot of tools beyond the kernel-level system to help with it. But there is zero business incentive for them to migrate to a different anti-cheat system.
It does not take much to upset your competitive players, because they spend so much time in your game system. And they’re the ones paying for season passes & cosmetics keeping the game alive. There is a lot of risk that companies have no business reason to tackle.
This doesn’t matter for plenty of games, sure, but for people who care about doing well and who enjoy being able to be ranked (and work toward being better) in a fair system, anti-cheat is an important part of the puzzle.
The HN crowd is asking people to prioritize something they don’t care about (how anticheat works) over something they already enjoy and put a lot of time into. That’s not how this works.
It’s going to take a company seeing the value of a Linux market to invest in better anti-cheat solutions for Linux, or investing completely into server-side tech.
It's obvious when it's obvious. But when it's not obvious, it's tautologically not obvious. And it still exists.
Actual cheats are different because it fundamentally changes the game.
As for the kids? Well, I suppose they gotta get their hand burned somehow.
It's EA's fault that you're required to install a damn rootkit to play a game. It's not the fault of Linux for refusing to allow this. Microsoft shouldn't allow it either, and they will likely shut it down before too much longer.
EA wants to intentionally compromise your computer. Linux says they can't do that. EA doesn't want you to play on Linux.
A user is in full control of their Linux install, which is great... unless I want to play them in a game and they decide to cheat.
It is a tradeoff, yes, but one I choose to make because being able to play cheater free multiplayer games is worth it to me.
Online matchmaking is what lets that be possible. I used to dream of having something like that, all the way back when I first started playing online games when you had to call your friend, then tell your family not to pick up the phone because it was your friend calling your modem, then lose connection when your sister tried to make a call. I remember having to set up a code with my friend; if the phone rang twice and then hung up, that means the next call would be me on a voice call wanting to talk, otherwise let the modem answer it.
I used to dream about being able to play people at any hour of the day, and now it is possible. It is an amazing invention.
That is impossible with custom servers. I have played MANY games that are based around custom servers (and still play some today), and there are many great qualities with those types of games. However, you lose that 'find a good game in under a minute' quality.
I am older now, and I don't want to spend the time to find and join custom servers. I don't want to have to talk to people or deal with server admins or get caught up in drama that a community like that can have. I just want to play competitive, fair games.
Except this way doesn't actually stop cheaters. A quick google shows that there's BF6 hacks for sale if I want to cheat.
Linux doesn't refuse anything, it's free and open source software. If publishers want to offer anti-cheat software developed for Linux, it will run. In fact, many games do have anti-cheat, like Insurgency: Sandstorm, which uses EAC through Proton.
Publishers can even develop invasive kernel-level anti-cheat just like they do for Windows. They don't because it's a small portion of the market currently, and I assume they consider it not worth the investment as of now. To what extent existing Linux users would willingly allow such software to run is also an open question.
There's also the point that even invasive kernel level anti-cheat on Windows with requirements for secure boot continues to be inadequate to stop cheaters in competitive online games.
Sure, there are technical solution around this, but they are legally questionable.
On Linux this can't work because a cheater can just build their own kernel with all the protections disabled or with intentional vulnerabilities. From what I've heard, statistics for games running anti cheats on Linux alongside Windows find the vast majority of cheaters on Linux.
Given this situation I think it's entirely reasonable to not support Linux if you're handing cheaters the game on a silver platter.
I agree with you and I wouldn't want to install that myself but just something I've thought about.
With federal taxes of 40% over $15 million, there's no way his estate maintains majority control, no matter Gabe's good intentions. After that, we can look forward to Microsoft Steam. Or, if the FTC is annoyed, Amazon Steam.
B. They are also taxed at 40%
C. And the estate may just want to sell more Steam shares to keep whatever they are intact
D. Even if by some miracle Gabe Newell still owns the required ~85% of Steam to barely squeak by on federal estate taxes ($16B presumed valuation = ~$5.5 billion tax bill if he owned 85%, leaving him with ~51% after payment), who is taking the reins?
- edits - additional points -
E. I forgot Gabe Newell lives in Seattle. If Washington is his actual residence, then Washington has an additional 35% tax rate on high-value estates. Which makes it completely impossible even with 100% ownership.
F. Why would his estate even bother trying to salvage Gabe's vision at this point, when they're left with an illiquid minority stake? A very possible scenario is to sell all shares they possess, in one transaction. The possibility of majority control could inflate the share price dramatically over a piecemeal sale.
G. In which case, within 9 months of Gabe's death (IRS deadline), there is a high likelihood there will be an estate auction of all shares to any willing purchaser (highest value per share extracted + tax bill paid). And that purchaser will then have immediate intent to cash in.
H. Betting on Steam then, promoting them as better than other companies, is completely dependent on Gabe's actuarial tables. Not to be harsh but just honest, considering Gabe's decades of obesity before getting to a healthier place now, they're probably worse than average, as long-term obesity has persistent irrevocable effects. (This sounds harsh, but actuarial analysis is directly used in insurance and estate planning; you can be assured every major company's CEO has been assessed.)
That means there's a $800M tax bill to keep those assets. If the estate has already lost majority control of Steam regardless; there's no real reason to not hand over even more of Steam, to keep hold of those other assets.
Ie they are more of a consumption than an investment.
Trusts also pay the gift tax at the time of the transfer. Trusts grant control, not much in tax exemptions at this scale.
Valve barely does any gatekeeping that isn't caused by outside pressure, i.e. Visa and Mastercard in the latest instance, which they're atleast trying to fight back against, from what I can tell.
There's (almost?) no ads and microtransactions in Steam games. If you look at mobile games or browser games, you can see that developers would put them in, if they could.
I don't think Steam has any complete blockers to microtransactions, given that there are games that do have it, although I don't think they're as predatory about it as mobile games are. Maybe that's down to cultural differences between PC and mobile, or maybe there's more too it.
Ads standing in the way of gameplay are indeed banned,[1] although there are ways around that I'm sure if devs really wanted to be knobheads about it, but people on PC tend to be more loud about ads in their games than on mobile.[2]
[1] https://www.gamespot.com/articles/valve-seemingly-bans-all-s...
[2] https://news.designrush.com/ubisoft-assassins-creed-ad-spark...
Of course, Apple and friends will try to convince you that their gatekeeping is the good kind.
ROFL.
Valve made games have (and heavily popularized): Paid battlepasses, Microtransactions, Loot Boxes and "NFTs"
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