Nest 1st Gen and 2nd Gen Thermostats No Longer Supported From Oct 25

Yes it was an unfortunate autocorrect and it’s now too late to fix it!

The day the kill that, is the day a new hell is trust upon you.

As it were, appreciate the life you have right now that AI doesn’t have ads, it’s coming.

1. A non-smart device that will work forever but looks and feels like it's still in the 90s

2. A device with a nice, responsive UI, but destined for the landfill because it's chained to a cloud service.

Why are these things mutually exclusive? Across so many product categories, there's seemingly few or no options for a nice UI but without dependence on an Internet service that will inevitably shut down.

Both Zwave and Zigbee build mesh networks with multiple routes. Wifi devices ... don't. Wifi is fine for IoT but it isn't optimised for it. My fridge/freezer uses wifi as does my oven and microwave. It doesn't matter if they lose comms sometimes and there is no choice anyway.

My light switches are Zwave. Thanks to way modern UK wiring is done, most of my switches end up with an extra conductor and so are permanently powered and act as hubs for the battery powered window sensors and the like.

My cameras are all PoE ethernet, including the door bell. All Reolink.

I have two UPSs with at least 30 mins run time. I could easily put in a genny or a battery or even use my car (EV) but its not important enough (yet). So far everything will work without the internet.

I have deployed two VLANS for IoT - THINGS, and SEWER for the really worrying gear on it!

Home Assistant runs the show.

> so [companies like Honeywell] are going to charge you 5-10x of the cost of a Nest for the same feature set but with a local-first implementation

"Established" companies also see the long-term value of subscriptions and are also hopping on that bandwagon.

Additionally, customers are extremely sensitive to up-front price, so a product that's more expensive up-front but with no subscription fee and longer-term value will have trouble finding a foothold in the market compared to cheaper but subscription-based alternatives. Especially if the alternatives are "1 year free!" as they usually are.

A Nest is ~$150, so I'm curious where these $750-1500 thermostats are...

Seems like you get a Honeywell thermostat for almost exactly the same price, if you don't care about cloud connectivity.

Nests performed well in unique spaces with different heating and cooling profiles, not to mention different kinds of shoulder seasons.

You’re still in the return window when you are presented with the service ToS.

I wonder if that's because the ones that would be upset never bought them in the first place.

Google does quite literally owe their shareholders ROI, by law.

Why would one expect them to do anything other than the minimum support period and expense that they can get away with that won’t trigger a class action?

There are no surprises or bait and switch here. Nobody was promised eternal support or updates.

It’s a business, not a charity.

My theory is that it checks boxes for "sEcUrItY."

There aren't enough enthusiasts who know the first thing about computers or security to be a market for any mass-market hardware, so they're designed for the proverbial "grandma" to be able to plausibly use. Therefore, you can't ask them to establish, remember, and maintain the secrecy of any credentials.

Therefore, they either need to make the devices permissively trusting on the LAN (which IoT devices got a lot of criticism for a few years ago) or they need these fluffy login methods that introduce dependencies: Usually they require email for forgotten-password recovery, SMS for a "sEcOnD fAcToR", and of course, because it would confuse people if the control only worked on the LAN without integrating into a home hub, they need every device to connect directly to the cloud and therefore for the app control to go through the WAN. Or at minimum, the LAN<->LAN communication is only permitted by possession of a JWT or similar that's been recently authorized by the cloud server.

* technically still does, but they tried to switch before they backpedaled

Curious to hear what local polling or local push thermostat you settled on with HA support!

Recently one of my Zigbee-controlled thermostats started pumping cold air constantly. To fix it, all I had to do was open and examine the board; one of the varistors got some battery acid on it when I had an alkaline battery burst in the unit. Because it was a no-name with an actual PCB, I was able to solder a new varistor in place, and it works good as new.

So I would say that "Smart Local Control" isn't the problem, but rather the ability to repair the thing. Also, the thermostat was $45 when I purchased it 5 years ago, so it was a good investment IMO. I think that's why everyone is upset about the Nest gen 1 and 2 sunsetting; there should be no reason that these devices should be breaking now (no failing electronics) but they die anyway because the company is too cheap to keep an extra endpoint running.

1. That you can buy a smart local control device.

2. That the electronics were designed with appropriate thermal management so they don't fry themselves quickly. Smart bulbs are the most notorious offenders here, but the problem is widespread.

Release years aren’t purchase years.

Everyone didn’t have the same purchase year.

And, it’s just a thermostat. When they first came out it was a little novel. Not anymore.

Temperature is a solved problem and algorithm.

There’s no real reason to discontinue them - they do the same thing they always have, connected to the same shared infrastructure.

I highly doubt the cost of cloud, tech increased or decreased since then.

It feels like a form of forced planned obsolescence. Maybe some growth or product folks not hitting their bonus lol.

Gen 1 and Gen 2 were unique also don’t have microphones in them. I know Gen 2 handled microbursting well not sure about other gens.

The truth is the cloud is someone else’s computer and the cloud always costs someone else, if not the customer.

Maybe nests aren’t being replaced fast enough or new nest purchases aren’t growing like before due to other options.

I won’t trust or buy any more Nest devices again or trust the brand. I buy newer Nest devices and cycle them out.

Gen 1 and Gen 2 folks were early adopters and they can find more elsewhere.

There are lots of other better options.

It’s easy to go early adopt the next thing. Home automation has come a long way and those who are trying to earn in the past risk being left in the past.

The device will work locally but api is being removed so the mobile app won’t work and neither will any home automation integrations.

The least they could do is just let people control it directly. We’ll see if it gets unlocked now.

Lol

One device is a pain. When you have a smart fridge, dishwasher, sonos, doorbell, smart lock, etc: the mean time to corporate abandonment gets very short.

I have an Ecobee, and for sure I’m looking to get off of that ecosystem once I’m forced to.

It also feels like Ecobee is an abandoned project at this stage: I get a 500 error trying to get a dev token, and portions of the app have been broken the entire time I’ve had one (9 years, 2 devices).