Linux Phones Are More Important Now Than Ever

so we fork and continue to work on lineageOS. why start from scratch? (i mean, it's nice to have alternatives, but there is no reason not to continue developing an android fork.

In Australia: Centrelink, Service Victoria, Medicare, myID (formerly MyGovID), ATO (tax) — for a start.

There's no great reason for these to be Android/Apple specific. I'm just offering examples as requested.

Portuguese government app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=id.gov.pt

Allows you to have a digital copy of your ID and sign in to government sites/services (there are alternative methods).

Not to mention why specifically government apps? Would those not be covered by general compatibility with web standards?

Wouldn’t well designed mobile web-apps suffice for that use case? I have several web-app site shortcuts linked on my Home Screen which behave just like the native apps. In most cases I don’t see why that would not be sufficient, including most “government apps” use cases

The BC Service Card app

Identity apps as well as apps to access government and social programs.

ROeID app, which is required by almost all RO government websites to log in.

the app for one of my banks which i need for 2FA won't run on my /e/OS phone.

> Linux can emulate android.

It can't emulate hardware attestation though, which most bank apps now require, so good luck with that.

Adoption will come only and only with essential apps people use every day.

Librem 5 can do all those things fine. Video is somewhat less reliable, but it works.

Outside US lots of banks use apps to generate a token and authenticate website transactions.

A lot of major banks worldwide have apps, and they usually require un-rooted phones.

People here seem to think this is some sort of Orwellian attempt to control them, but the reasons are more mundane and technical - many of them (mine included, from two countries) use security facilities on the phone to secure your accounts.

For example, my HSBC UK app has replaced the little calculator thing they used to ship, and uses iOS face recognition to secure the generation of log-on codes which you need in order to use the web interface, as well as for secure access to the banking app directly.

With a rooted phone they don't have the guarantees that these aren't being exfiltrated, or the app being subverted in novel ways, so they don't want to support it.

You may not consider this a good enough reason, and I have heard it said on HN that 'the banks shouldn't get to control what I do on my computing device!', and that attitude is absolutely fine, but then you'll most likely end up with either less secure banking (meaning more fraud, higher fees etc) or going back to having to have a dedicated security device.

> I can deposit checks through it on my laptop

American-like banking detected... who uses checks in 2025?! :)

They do, but some seem to be gradually removing functionality (like check deposit via scan + upload) in favor of using their amazingly convenient (/s) app.

At least with my CU, mobile check deposit is the only function I need a mobile phone for; everything else is equally available on the web interface. (I could go to a physical branch, in lieu of mobile, I suppose.)

Not yet.

Linux is ready, what is not ready is the ecosystem.

> Linux is not ready

OK, but what steps are being made to make it ready? How do you solve the issue of many apps not accepting rooted Androids (and very rightly so)?

I mean, Linux distros even struggle with Secure Boot on a normal PC - which is a far easier problem to solve...

I had to deal with this for government apps specifically related to immigration. I don't mind banks requiring it, I don't have to use that bank. I do mind governments requiring it if my only recourse is having to leave the country entirely.

Do they not have websites to login with?

People in non-US countries apparently have a litany of government and banking apps which are mandatory at all times.

I work for a bank. There is a strategic focus on the mobile banking app over the web app. Younger generations are doing everything through their phones. Including applying for home loans. Many banks are moving towards being digital only as contactless payments means people are using cash a lot less to the point that physical bank branches don't make sense anymore.

> What government apps do people run?

Public transport ticket app, government ID app, drivers licence app.

I do believe all of these specific examples run fine on rooted Android without too much hassle (unsure about the second one), so they should be emulatable or whatever on a Linux phone, but that assumes that experience holds up decently well, which I would be surprised if it did for apps like this.

> Why do you need to access your bank account on your phone?

Because the app is a whole lot better than the web interfaces my previous banks had. Plus the added convenience. I'd prefer that the web interface was just as good as the app, but I'd still use the app even if that existed, just due to the convenience.

> Why do you need to access your bank account on your phone?

My bank requires me to authenticate all online transactions via the phone app. Without it, it's not possible to make online payments.

This might be an extreme example, but with Saudi Arabia's Absher app you can do almost everything related to government services, IDs and passports, car and driving licenses, visa, all kinds of permits etc. Other countries may have similar apps.

Digital ID in Sweden uses BankID - it is used for everything from identifying at government pages, to your bank, to the supermarket, etc.

I do most of my banking and investments on my phone. I don’t think I’m in the minority here.

> Why do you need to access your bank account on your phone?

Many banks require you use their app to do anything, e.g., make transfers, approve debit card transactions, register your biometrics to unfreeze your account, etc.

And no, choosing a bank without these requirements isn't possible in some countries.

> What government apps do people run?

There are a bunch of them here in Australia, and there were several in the UK.

Here there's a secure ID app for government services which is used as 2FA on the web interface, and various apps to access state and national government services directly. There's a tax one that allows you to scan receipts to collect them up for your annual tax return. In the UK I had an NHS app, can't remember what else.

They aren't mandatory, you can live without them, but they are often convenient.

> Why do you need to access your bank account on your phone?

Because it's many people's primary computing device? Why would you not want to access your bank accounts on your phone?

And because if you want to log on to some banks websites you need to have a 2FA security code which can either be generated by a dedicated security device, which has become less common now, or by an app on the phone which is then usually biometrically protected. There is sometimes a second code-generation method for higher value transfers.

So it is convenient to be able to send payments in the bank app, though less common than using my phone instead of the physical card through apple/google pay (those don't require the bank app to be installed).

My bank doesn't yet require the mobile app (quite), but all interactions are significantly more annoying without the app. My 2FA options all require a phone, either for the insecure method of texting me the code, or else an app-only option (they don't allow generic 2FA apps, but instead require a specific app, that almost definitely won't exist for a linux phone). Even verifying my identity on the phone is better with the app (the app generates a code that they just accept, it can be done without but it's slower and more inconvenient).

So no, my everyday interactions don't require the phone app. But any interaction that is novel enough to require direct communication with the bank has been rendered annoying without the phone app.

I'm someone for whom I'd probably be willing to deal with all these inconveniences to make my statement about ownership over my hardware and software, but I doubt that very many average consumers would.

I had to use government apps as part of their immigration process, the apps were only available in the official app stores. If I remember right they had am all for immigration services, though I know for sure they had a digital ID app that was absolutely required.

The major banks in that country also required apps from official app stores, though I don't think I was technically required to have a bank account. I was in the country under a program based on owning my own consulting business. I did have to prove financials to the government as part of that, but maybe there was a way I could have technically done that without a bank account which required a mobile app.

I need my banking app for 2FA to login with the browser. No, they don't use or allow TOTP.

In the case of my bank:

I had to enable secure auth to access some features. This works only with the mobile app, even when logging on the web I need the mobile app.

Some functions are available only in the app as well. Now I’m stuck with the app because I need those and needed secure auth to access those functions.

It’s evil but I has no choice (no choice of other banks either for reasons I won’t go into here, just accept it and don’t tell me to change banks. Other banks are no better anyway. )

This is what I'm thinking. Android supports multi-user, right? So a cheap Android POS shared with the family that gets left at home most of the time.

I also think just not using a phone as much is a viable solution. People are addicted to their phones so it would feel like intercision at first. But freedom is worth it. Never sacrifice freedom for convenience. You actually don't need to look up stuff on Wikipedia at any time while you're outside. Just be outside. Be offline. It's fine. It's better even.

I'd be happy just going back to a dumbphone for the phone bit and having a portable GNU/Linux device for travelling. I still have a 15 year old Dell netbook but sadly the battery is shot and it's no good for the wonderful "modern" web. But something like that would be fine.

Agreed, the Linux phone landscape is far from daily driver ready even for a lot of tech enthusiasts. But that's also why it's so important people spend development time trying to solve that instead of screwing with ROMs. Short of a strong profit motive, Linux mobile needs a lot of volunteer effort.

Did a nation state ask GrapheneOS to add that feature?

Absolute lies, where I live it is one party consent. I can still record with another device on speakerphone.

iphone now allows phone call recording.

I don't know if it is geolocked somehow, I wouldn't be surprised if it was. for example, Japanese iphones always make a shutter sound in japan or in airplane mode

There is a waveform thing in the corner you can press during a call. It will say "this call is being recorded" and waits 5 seconds, then records the call.

strangely... the recording doesn't end up in voice memos, it ends up in notes.

Now consider the fact that an arbitrary other app can take a screenshot clandestinely, via API. Would you like it to happen when you're looking at the summary of your accounts? your list of credit card numbers?

The problem is that certain actions should only be acceptable if initiated by the user, physically. Think of the way Ctrl+Alt+Del works in Windows. This, of course, is not possible if you don't have enough fingers for the action, or something; here comes the loophole of assistive technologies, widely (ab)used for that on most platforms.

I want to send my new IBAN to my company, I can, no screenshot allowed on the screen with banking information. So I need to log on their website to do it. At least my new bank allows such screenshot and to copy account information directly from the app.

In some sense they are. But being protected either from a consequence of my own stupidity or a consequence of their lack of security. I think the worst part of all is that these "bandaids" are being used in place of actual security. I don't need to be protected from my own stupidity nor do I need security theater.

Pretty sure Twitch on iOS does this now. Screen recording still works though.