Fcc Chair Suggests Agency Isn't Independent, Word Cut From Mission Statement
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The debate is heating up over the FCC's independence after its chair suggested the agency isn't truly independent and had the word "independent" removed from its mission statement. Commenters are divided, with some arguing that the concept of independent agencies is already contentious and others warning that removing independence could lead to an unconstitutional concentration of power in the executive branch. The discussion touches on the Unitary Executive Theory, with some pointing out that it's a long-standing debate, while others question the accountability of independent agency heads. As the Supreme Court's stance on independence hangs in the balance, the conversation is sparking fresh insights into the implications of a potentially shifting regulatory landscape.
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Under this interpretation, the FCC is considered part of the executive branch and aligned with the president's policy objectives rather than operating as an autonomous body
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_v._United_States
Yes, I do think the time horizon of every SCOTUS member is longer than four years. I believe Gorsuch when he says:
Being far sighted doesn't make you right or wrong.Which some of them see as an opportunity
Think of a scenario where a President was elected with a large-ish majority and promised during the campaign to change broadband regulations to reduce broadband prices across the country. Unfortunately, the FCC commissioners were all appointed by the previous president and block this policy change that the voters clearly support. How does that square with democratic accountability?
Which would be perfectly fine as a basis if we were still in the 18th century.
Things are, I believe, somewhat different now and what a bunch of rich old white men thought then isn't all that relevant now except as a historical oddity.
For example, the Catholic Church is neither (solely) defined by a set of 2,000 year old writings, nor is it under strict authoritarian rule by the elected Pope. The Church has been gradually sculpted and steered by centuries of councils, disagreements and reconciliations, frequently competing institutions, and much more. It is its own thing, and its history defines what it is.
I don't understand why the Federalist Papers gets cited as if it were part of the Constitution. It is not a definitive source of anything except the opinion of those two (three, with Jay) men.
Supreme Court rulings can create new precedents by overruling previous cases. Or would you say Brown v Board is not precedent because Plessy v Ferguson already spoke on the same matter?
In this case, Trump is easily bought and isn't very concerned with governing himself (compared to playing golf or designing ballrooms). With this in mind, even people outside the executive branch, or even the USA are benefiting.
If the least "bought" president in history is "easily" bought, then we're doomed!
He literally publicly offered oil executives whatever they wanted for a billion dollars, and though he didn't make that much (that we can prove) has been delivering on that promise since. [0]
While being "honest" in the sense of "staying bought" and delivering the promised graft is somewhat commendable, it's not exactly evidence that he holds some sort of moral high ground.
[0] https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/4961820-oil-bi...
I don't see any difference and this is something that all candidates do at every level - local, state and federal elections. I mean, look at what Mamdani promised in order to get elected.
"It doesn't matter if my guy is crooked, because they're all crooked." is a big leap from him being the least bought. It's also gross.
> How is this any different than Biden
This is just "whataboutery." Biden's not the president. Trump is, and the stuff that Trump does is Trumps fault.
You don't get to have (or in his case, somewhat maintain) the wealth that he so often brags about unless you are willing to be bought.
If you have 2 million dollars lying around you can commit any federal crimes and buy a pardon.
It is true and your own comment is a restatement of what I said. It's even obviously true, why would you pick a fight over this? You said "even if that was relevant" why not argue that instead?
It arises from the need for certain aspects of our country to not be explicitly partisan or subject to fickle leadership. Same reason people call for independent boards to draw congressional maps.
This country is not a never has been a direct democracy. It is inherently skeptical of the democratic process to an extent.
The Constitution may not use the modern civics phrase "executive branch," but it plainly creates what we now call one: "The executive Power shall be vested in a President..." Even if we grant the semantic point, it doesn't prove the legal conclusion you want. Congress's authority to create agencies and offices and design their basic structures (subject to constitutional limits) is well-recognized. [2]
You're also wrong to treat Myers v. United States as if it ended the discussion. Myers involved a purely executive officer (a postmaster) and is part of a broader removal-power line of cases. [3] Humphrey’s Executor (1935) limited the sweep of Myers in the context of independent commissions by upholding Congress's ability to restrict removal of FTC commissioners to specified causes (e.g. "inefficiency, neglect of duty, or malfeasance in office"). [4]
Your analogy to "congressional aides" and "judicial law clerks" is a category error. Aides/clerks are staff whose authority flows through, and is controlled by, constitutional officers. Independent commissions are Congress-created offices exercising delegated statutory authority, and the question is how far Congress may structure that delegation (appointments, terms, partisan-balance requirements, and sometimes removal limits) consistent with separation of powers.
Finally, the Woodrow Wilson citation is doing sleight of hand. The passage you quote is about insulating administration from day-to-day politics ("administrative questions are not political questions") and it indeed contains elitist/racist language about voters. [5] But (1) that’s an argument about civil service/administration, not a dispositive argument about the constitutionality of independent commissions, and (2) it's historically confused to imply this is a late/progressive "invention": as early as 1887 Congress created the ICC with explicit bipartisan-balance language and explicit for-cause removal language. [6]
If you think Humphrey’s Executor was wrongly decided and should be overruled, that's an argument you can make. But pretending "independent agencies don’t exist" (or that Myers settled everything) just isn't accurate as a description of U.S. law, and someone with your background and experience should know this.
[1] https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S2-C2-3... [2] https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R45442 [3] https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/272us52 [4] https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/295us602 [5] https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/the-study-of-ad... [6] https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/interstate-comm...
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondelegation_doctrine
For example, make attorney general an elected, independent position.
Democracy would be more resilient to an executive coup if its powers were split among several independently elected officials, like we see in some state governments today.
The common use of the expression "fourth branch of government" to describe independent agencies belies your assertion here.
> Almost fifty years of experience has accustomed lawyers and judges to accepting the independent regulatory commissions, in the metaphor, as a headless 'fourth branch' of government.
Source: 1984 Columbia Law article, referencing the 1937 Brownlow Committee Report. https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?art...
> Such groups can include the press (akin to the European 'Fourth Estate'), the people (in sum or as grand juries), and interest groups. The independent administrative agencies of the United States government, while technically part of any one of the three branches, may also be referred to as a ‘fourth branch’.
“Always” is doing heavy lifting here. Independent agencies were a paradigm shift under FDR. We’re presumably seeing a shift away from that paradigm.
U.S. Marshals used to belong to the judicial branch, and were hired by the district courts. In the 1960s, they were moved to the executive branch, under the Justice Department. This wasn't controversial at the time. The court system wasn't set up to train and manage the marshals. But the effect was that the courts lost their independent muscle.
[1] https://apnews.com/article/trump-supreme-court-copyright-off...
Because the constitution explicitly grants the president absolute executive power over executive branch (government) of which FCC is part of. If government is a company then president is CEO and can do anything he wants to do.
Of course people can argue about the meaning so ultimately the arbiter of what constitution mean is Supreme Court.
And recently there were several lawsuits in the vain "the president can't do THAT" and while federal judges said "indeed, he can't" and issued injunctions, they were pretty much overturned by higher court or Supreme Court, re-affirming that president does in fact has control of executive branch.
And if you want to game this: if this wasn't true, congress could completely defang the powers of the president by making every government agency (IRS, FBI, FTC etc.) "independent" and de facto giving the power to unelected beaurocrats away from elected president.
And why should you care about this?
Because every 4 years you can vote for a different president.
You can't vote for the head of FCC.
FCC commissioners are appointed by the president (who is elected) and confirmed by senators (who are also elected). The chair is then chosen from those commissioners by the president (who, again, is elected).
Saying you can't vote for the head of the FCC is like saying that you can't vote for the Secretary of State. Sure, you don't cast a ballot for them directly, but you do wield influence by electing leaders to represent your interests.
The Secretary of State serves at the pleasure of the president.
You're arguing that FCC commissioners shouldn't.
That's why I pointed out that the Secretary of State can be fired at whim by an elected official while the "independent FCC commissioner" can't.
I apologize if my inference was incorrect.
No it doesn't.
The President is obligated to faithfully execute the laws of the United States. It's literally in the very first sentence of the Constitution's definition of the President's power and responsibilities.
Article 2 Section 3
Compare with Article 1, Section 1: "All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives" and with Article 3, Section 1: "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish."
Who holds legislative power? Congress. Who holds judicial power? The Supreme Court (and other courts that Congress establishes). Who holds executive power? The President.
I'm no advocate for the extreme unitary executive theories of folks like John Yoo, but the idea that all executive authority is vested in the president can't be written off as something that some crank came up with in just the last couple of decades.
That is the power that’s vested in the executive
Take, for instance, the executive power "to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States" (Art. 2, Sec. 2). There is a pardon attorney who advises the president, but it is solely the president who has the executive power to grant the pardon; in that sense the president exercises the pardon power exclusively (or phrased differently to the absolute exclusion of others).
Congress writes the laws, the executive (led by the President) executes them.
Not sure what your pardon example is meant to illustrate.
Independent agencies exist to make policy shifts more gradual. That's their entire purpose.
Suppose, the next election cycle AOC gets elected, then puts in her cronies who require all stations to air 8 hours of pro-socialism ads every day. And there is nobody at the FCC to say "no".
The only entity that can sue is the DOJ, and it's also controlled by the president.
Don't worry--if that came to pass, the Supreme Court would suddenly reverse itself and decide that the president doesn't actually have that much power over the executive branch. He only has that power when he's an (R).
He (the president) shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
So the president can appoint various officials, but the Senate must, by majority vote, confirm the ones that Congress hasn't designated as not requiring confirmation.
On the removal side, there's this:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Note "all civil Officers of the United States". Any government employee can be impeached. A few judges have been impeached and convicted over the last 200 years.
That's all the Constitution says.
Cabinet members and some other high officials serve "at the pleasure of the President", and Congress has delegated authority for lower level civil servants to the executive branch and the Merit System Protection Board.
So the question for the various semi-independent boards and commissions is whether the president can remove them, or whether they need to be impeached to be removed. This is a real question where the members have a term of office set by law. Federal Trade Commission members have a 7-year term. Security and Exchange Commission members, 5 years. Federal Reserve commissioners, 14 years. Arguably, they should serve out their term unless impeached. The constitutional argument is that the executive branch has only enumerated powers, those listed in the Constitution. Since the constitution specifies both appointment and removal by impeachment, that covers the only ways such officers can enter office or be removed from it unless Congress provides otherwise.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers_v._United_States
It also cites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsons_v._United_States
Which DOES say something about whether the president has the power to dismiss, among other officials, district attorneys:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=755666055204146...
The head of the Judicial Branch operates on vibes and bribes now.
Totally different from bribes
/s
SCOTUS has been liberal since the FDR days. The pendulum has now swung in the opposite direction.
The current SCOTUS is reducing the power of the administrative state and the unelected bureaucrats.
Yes, and concentrating it in the executive. When are we going to stop pretending that the unitary executive dream isn't real?
It's the same dog whistle as States Rights vs Slavery. When push comes to shove the confederacy banned states from determing their own slavery policy.
We see this extremely obviously with the AI policy of the white house which is _do not_ let the states decide.
Elected Republican dogma is "State's Rights" when the states would decide the "correct" right and it's Federal supremacy when they wouldn't.
That is true of all branches of the government, not just the executive.
It is consistently corrupt.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43635075
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43618976
Just wait until opposition candidates start getting disqualified for an unpaid parking ticket (while the incumbent had his fingers in a tank assault on the Duma, or three different election fraud conspiracies and one failed coup).
Article I courts arguably exercise judicial power independently of the Article III judges.
But if you want to go down the separation of power route, you'll need to break up many federal agencies to cleanly separate their legislative and judicial functions from their executive duties. That was the basis of Humphreys Excecutor -- which btw was decided by largely the same court as in Myers. Humphreys (and later in Morrison v Olson) recognized that federal agencies can in practice perform "quasi-legislative" and "quasi-judicial" functions, not merely law enforcement duties. There is for example a body of law governing rulemaking by agencies. Separation of powers should prevent a president laying claim to all three.
Even CJ Roberts observed during the oral arguments of Trump v Slaughter that an agency's functions might span all three categories of government power -- executive, legislative, judicial -- to various degrees.
A fundamental principle in any legal system is that no one can be the judge in his own case. But if the ALJs and the SEC rulemakers are under the direct control of the president, then the president is effectively performing legislation, prosecution, and adjudication all at once. The president could keep sacking ALJs until he finds one willing to issue his favored ruling. That is precisely the kind of scenario that separation of powers seeks to avert.
Actually, there are three early examples of independent agencies, though note that until the modern administrative state emerged in the late 19th century the Federal government was never so hierarchically organized as to admit to an "agency" as we understand that term today.
First was the 1790 sinking fund, a nominally executive committee created by Congress to pay down the national debt, which which could override the President's decision regarding payments. Second was the office of the comptroller, which for strongly shielded from executive control. These two examples are presumably why in a recent emergency docket decision there's dicta exclaiming that Federal Reserve independence was not and in decisions to come would not be implicated by what SCOTUS (impliedly) has coming down the pipeline. Both of these examples would later be construed as examples of "quasi-legislative" executive agencies, rooted in Congress' power of the purse.
Third was the de facto independence of federal district attorneys. Until 1820 they were answerable to nobody, except in theory to Congress by impeachment. This would be an original example of "quasi-judicial" executive officers.
There are more, albeit less clear-cut practices, including the situation in Marbury v Madison. Also note that the removal power is distinct from the broader contemporary unitary executive theory, which aims to place even more plenary power in the presidency than merely removal (which is just the hook to prove the larger theory), and therein lies much more complexity, which is why the whole debate has been muddled from the very beginning of the US--the Founders and early Congresses discussed it explicitly, but only showing there was in fact no consensus. But I think the black letter law annunciated by Humphrey's Executor, that Congress can in principle shield quasi-legislative and quasi-judicial agencies from the president, is spot on when trying to square constitutional text, constitutional theory, and historical practice. Though, there's a good argument that over time the courts have not been vigilant enough in cabining Humphrey's Executor, which is presumably why Robert's recently politely suggested that Humphrey's Executive as applied today does not hew closely to the legal principle it expounded, and perhaps even applied it's own principle wrongly.
There are scores of law review articles discussing the subject going back well over a century, but a really good one written not long after the Reagan-era debates is "The President and the Administration" by none other than Cass Sunstein and (apropos HN) Lawrence Lessig, https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/journal_articles/7779/
That article is the most honest review of the debate I've read; perhaps too honest and earnest because they really pull their punches. (Perhaps that's partly because of Lessig's background in legal history and his reluctance to make absolute declarations about historical matters?) It gives significant attention to Myers, FWIW, including agreeing (IIRC) that it was correctly decided.
And if you haven't read this already, here's the contemporaneous strong-man argument for independent agencies, Christine Kexel Chabot, Is the Federal Reserve Constitutional? An Originalist Argument for Independent Agencies, 96 Notre Dame L. Rev. 1 (2020), https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/ndlr/vol96/iss1/1
Judicial review of executive actions is stronger and more frequent than its ever been. Congressional power of the purse is secure. And the REINS Act (not yet passed) would require Congress to approve major agency rules before they take effect
Which reality do you live in?
In my reality, POTUS is doing everything he can to grind down Congress's power of the purse.
He's actively pressuring Fed policy, which at its most extreme gives the executive a blank check as it can force the Fed to purchase treasuries, filling the executive's coffers directly.
At the same time, they're arguing that pocket rescissions give them the right to avoid spending any individual dollar they do not wish to spend, even if Congress has allocated it.
Tell me what gives you confidence that the power of the purse is secure?
And it hasn't been working well. DOGE failed, SCOTUS has not yet issued a final determination on pocket rescissions, and the Fed can only buy treasuries on the secondary market, meaning the bond market is in control. There is also the debt ceiling which requires Congress to raise it.
SCOTUS "hasn't issued a final determination" on almost any issue put in front of it in Trump 2. Yet they consistently land on "the administration can do what it wants while we delay actually ruling, even if several lower courts have ruled against this outcome after actually hearing the case at length."
The Fed's prohibition from buying Treasuries directly is only relevant if the FOMC is actually independent. If it's not, nothing prevents POTUS from saying "the Fed will buy $x in treasuries at $y," directing them to do so, and creating a clear arb opportunity for all the intermediary banks to buy and re-sell their slice.
Sure, that'd trigger a financial crisis, but that's kind of the whole problem with idiot demagogues: they trigger such crises as a matter of course.
It has little to do with political parties even though originalist thought is more aligned with conservative social and political thinking and pragmatists are more aligned with progressive thinking.
The shame of this is, it is in defiance of the design of the Founders, and will take a LONG time to correct, if we don't descent into authoritarianism before it is corrected.
Which have been packed by Federalist ideologues for years. The "court" (as if its some one whole) isn't some nueatral 3rd party arbiter of the "law".
From my perspective the Federal Government subjugated all the states by magically noticing that all commerce had become interstate commerce by the 1930s. Its a parallel country overlaying the union of states, instead of federalism - which has a definition divergent of what "Federal" means to us in reference to the national government.
Harmonizing that all back under the President is a step, right before going after the Interstate Commerce clause itself.
I don't care how disruptive that is, its Congress' job. If Congress can't form consensus the country is done, obviously. Otherwise, surface candidates that can actually bridge consensus, which is always an option. Everyone's last minute civil rights goals aren't going to happen, duh! So drop that just like all administrations from the past 250 years did consecutively, and pass relevant things that keep the lights on.
I don’t think you’ve thought through your point or you are desperately struggling to get through the cognitive dissonance. Nothing has indicated that SCOTUS will Trump. Their history so far has been heads Trump wins, tails Trumps enemy loses.
Like they ruled Biden couldn’t cancel student loans but then bend over backward to let Trump do as he pleases.
You’re getting a king, not a return of power to the states
I think its a speedbump that now they all will be under the purview of the Executive
Its not controversial to me as most of them already are and were never suggested to be outside of it, most agencies weren't formed as independent just a couple
the entire paradigm should be scrapped, in the mean time their sovereignty over a domain is gone
the other side gets a President eventually too, if that freaks out Republicans then they can get consensus with the currently freaked out Democrats to change it
While this SCOTUS is tossing out the chevron defense because Congress apparently shouldn’t be able to delegate out broad power and needs to pass a law for each chemical agencies like the DEA are supposed to police, they are going to green light the agencies set aside as independent by Congress and let the President do whatever he wants.
This is just another executive power grab adding to the Imperial Presidency.
I also am not confident in the other side getting power again given that this admin is the only one in the history of the United States who disrupted the peaceful transfer of power, and no I’m not referencing the J6 riots but their false slate of electors in multiple states which was the real attempt to overthrow the government
Everyone who replied completely missed my point, despite how simply and clearly I worded it. You're doing a masterful job illustrating it.
Everyone around here thinks that just because you don't need a college degree to become a software engineer or found an eventual multibillion dollar software company, that the same must generalize to every other profession, including biotech, law, and even medicine.
I have an opinion on Chevron deference: letting party in a lawsuit interpret the laws and regulations concerning their own case is asinine. However, I don't pretend to know whether or not it can or should hold up in court based on stare decisis or any particular legal tradition.
More importantly, I don't operate under some delusion that other people would benefit from hearing my opinion on matters outside my own education or vocation.
"A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards." -Proverbs 29:11
(Okay, I have an amateur radio license and have designed devices to be compliant with 47 CFR part 15, so theoretically I'm a little more versed in FCC operations, but this is all high-school level civics that seems to be actively unlearned by anyone with an MFA or any degree in journalism.)
Constitutionally, federal agencies have to be authorized by the legislative branch and executed by the executive branch. Federal agencies not only can't be truly independent, they're beholden to two separate branches of government, either of which can reduce their reach, and the judicial branch has oversight to ensure what they do is actually authorized.
Sure, the judicial branch has historically played extremely fast and loose with the constitution, e.g. by considering authority over "interstate commerce" to cover feeding your livestock with crops you grew (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn), so plenty of blatantly unconstitutional rules have stood for extended periods of time, especially those growing the power of the executive branch, but more recently, the courts have been ruling to limit the power of the executive branch, for example preventing executive organizations from enforcing fines without authority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMG_Capital_Management,_LLC_v....) operating without executive oversight (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seila_Law_LLC_v._Consumer_Fina...) and making up their own rules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackett_v._Environmental_Prote... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loper_Bright_Enterprises_v._Ra...).
They're not likely to rule any differently in this case, and except for actions that would otherwise be unconstitutional, none of these rulings prevent congress from creating regulations or authorizations allowing federal agencies to performing their respective overturned actions, it just prevents them from acting until congress has authorized them to do so.
You're not Antonin Scalia, you didn't earn it- have some humility.
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5636278-trump-s...
It appears to be an open question as to if independent agencies are allowed under the constitution. The most recent round of articles seem to be like that one in The Hill, which indicate the answer is likely to be 'no'.
This seems to be in response to that.
The congress cannot legislate a fourth branch even if they wanted to. They'd need a constitutional amendment for that. We have thus, by a simple application of reading and logic concluded that this is precisely as is expected given the US constitution.
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