America's Largest Homebuilders Shift the Cost of Shoddy Construction to Buyers
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America's largest homebuilders are accused of shifting the cost of shoddy construction to buyers, sparking a heated discussion on the importance of thorough inspections and the need for better consumer protection.
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On newer homes you want to look out for shoddy construction. On older homes pay particular attention to water, mold, roofing, and basement and/or foundation issues.
You might still buy a house with issues but you need to know what you’re getting into and price in repairs.
Unfortunately batshit housing prices coupled with ignorant buyers means that in some markets it might take you a long time to buy if you’re prudent. Push back a little on price and someone else will take it and waive inspection.
This isn’t just happening on the West Coast. I live in Cincinnati and have a family member looking and they got front run a few times by buyers purchasing with no inspection at or above asking … on properties they’d visited and that they knew had issues. It’s nuts.
Architects, engineers, and doctors, among many others, have ethical obligations tied to their professional affiliation. I would approach this problem from the same angle with home inspectors.
I would like a way for serious problems to not be covered up, but I believe you're going to need to do this by tying it to a home inspector's license, such as obligating "severe problem" reports to a registry which anyone could query for a fee that would be nominal for any serious potential buyer. Perhaps 0.05% of the property's highest-ever sale price, or $100, whichever is higher? Maybe some of that fee goes to the home inspectors who did the reports, to encourage severe-problem-free reports. Still lots of problems and abuses to mitigate, the least of which is how to define "severe problem", but that has the potential to provide a net benefit, unlike comments on Zillow.
I would also not expect buyers to normally avoid their own home inspection by using such a report, it would simply be another fee -- which I dislike -- though as a nearly-instantaneous result, I see a way to structure it to fit after the contingent offer is accepted (or perhaps just before submitting the offer) and before hiring their own inspection. The buyers now have a chance to address their specific concerns about the severe-problem report by what they ask from their inspector.
You could provide aggregate statistics on home inspectors to show competency. "Within the past 5 years, Harry the Home Inspector has submitted [X] reports. Of those, [X] were also reported by other inspectors within [12 months] of Harry's reports, and Harry is [in the top third / above average / below average] when ranking for not missing severe problems that were reported by other inspectors." But now you have to track repairs that explain why one inspector didn't report what another did, have some way of vetting severe problems for being correctly reporting (or setup an appeal system...), you have to track the scope of inspections to know if a severe problem would have been expected to have been found, and it continues.
From my armchair continuing to think this through, I don't see how to control the complexity on any of this in a feasible way for what would need to be run by a government licensing agency so that society has a net benefit.
The incredible range of perspectives in real estate makes this kind of feedback even more pointless than amazon product reviews.
There are homes that are catastrophic for a family but absolutely perfect for an individual who is doing things like working off shore or remote. Lifestyle is probably the most important factor.
When my wife and I tried to upsize in Charleston, we got outcompeted every single time. We had one seller smartly list on a Friday and announce “All offers welcome, we will accept the best offer on Monday.” We overbid by $30k and still lost to a $40k full cash no inspection buyer from out of state. We bid on a few others and quickly gave up and left the area, the carpetbaggers can have it.
Luckily I work remote and live in the country near a big college town now, but from what I hear of my coworkers in DC, Nashville, Miami, and Texas… it’s the same everywhere and often even crazier. I have no clue how my children will be able to buy a home at this rate.
Really though... this is a result of three things working in tandem: chronic underbuilding of housing especially in some areas, a prolonged period of low interest rates, and financialization of housing. The underbuilding of housing is driven by both NIMBYism and a particularly bad boom-bust cycle in housing a few years ago that scared off a lot of builders.
This is completely true. Speaking of, I can connect you with a number of long-term Ohio residents who would be willing to execute a sale-leaseback agreement that expires when their youngest kid graduates high school. For a fee, since you’d be getting such a great deal and early access to prime real estate. I can even get you hundreds of acres of prime farmland, if your budget stretches that far. Let me know!
The winds shifted about a year ago. Pull up any property in the north Houston area (Conroe, etc) if you really want a punch in the gut relative to your current desired market.
The market prices an absolutely insane premium on being the guy that takes the risk to build a house.
A good project might be a little cabin that is under the sq ft to need a permit.
1. Require an independent home inspection as a condition of every sale, with a penalty of losing the right to live in the largest building after six months.
2. Make the report of every home inspection part of the public record, kept with the deed registry.
I've never had an inspection requirement as part of purchase initial financing nor as part of a refinancing.
I don't think any of the appraisers were inside for even 10 minutes.
There are limits to home inspections, and many types of defects you're just not going to see. For example, that leaking water line causing a brown spot on the wall that reappeared after a week could be slightly slower (or in a drier season) and only appear after a few months. Many problems take time to manifest as symptoms, and especially with a newly constructed home there just hasn't been enough time. (also why code inspectors check at separate stages of progress, while many more problems can be visible without having to open walls)
Furthermore, home inspectors don't actually have any skin in the game. They're not giving you any kind of representation or warranty, but rather more of a quick look from the perspective of someone who knows how houses are built and have a list of common problems to look for. And they can certainly succumb to the same type of normalization of deviance going on with the contractors in this article.
That's not even getting into the types of ongoing scams I've heard of where builders/sellers do things like "seal" the attic access door for "energy efficiency" reasons, and then assert that home inspectors cannot inspect the attic (eg the roof!) because opening the door would be causing damage. Or that a seller can easily cover up many types of problems a home inspector would notice, it's just generally illegal.
I'd say the real problems here are the high pressure sales funnel, and the complete lack of legal accountability. Forced arbitration and other onerous terms should be illegal. Heck if we're talking about a professional developer with an inventory, liquidated damages themselves should mostly be illegal. And newly built homes should have mandatory warranty periods longer than a year, probably at least 5 years, culminating with an independent inspector at the end to help notice any still-developing problems.
Then, claims for defects shouldn't be going directly to the builder who's strongly incentivized to trickle it down to some disempowered guy in a van, claiming to have solved the problem with whatever he had on hand. Rather the homeowner should be able to choose any contractor to fix the problem and file a claim on the builder's insurance - just as if it was home insurance claim, with a different responsible party.
As a buyer, I don't need you to tell me that an $800 dishwasher or $1200 water heater might fail someday; you might as well tell me that the water coming from the faucets is wet. I want to know about the major systems. That particular inspection was "no ready roof access, so a visual inspection was conducted from the ground with nothing obvious detected; if you're concerned about roof condition, have a roofer come out." No, the roof is one of the very few things I care about from hiring you.
Most recent inspection was better, but still included a dozen pages of ticky-tack nonsense that no one should care about. I suspect that makes people feel better that they got their money's worth by someone pointing out that a kitchen floor tile had a visible crack in it, one kitchen light bulb was burned out, and an HVAC filter was overdue for changing, but that crap doesn't even need to be in the report let alone become a permanent part of the registered record of the property, nor should it be forced as part of the purchase process.
Requiring it as part of every transaction would be a massive giveaway to the home inspection industry. Adults are capable of making adult decisions, and if they want an inspection as part of the decision, they can choose to get one. Likewise, sellers can choose to go with the buyer who best fits their circumstances.
This is enabled of course by agents whose primary goal is not to get the seller the best price, but to collect their commission percentage, right now, and move on to the next prospect.
Yeah, I observed this in the Boston area during the post-Covid easy money real estate rush.
I intentionally bought one with minor foundation and drainage issues because the trade off was that everything else is perfect. You can fix landscaping, concrete, insulation, plumbing, etc. with incremental expenses. You cannot fix your location. That requires starting all over again each time.
Drainage is especially difficult to fix if the topography is to blame. You can’t move your home out of a low spot or off a floodplain.
Pier and beam foundation issues are essentially a non-event in my view. If you can literally crawl underneath your house and touch everything, it's basically like cheating.
With slab-on-grade things get more challenging, but installing piers on the perimeter and fixing internal slabs is not really a crisis situation. Concrete work has a huge advantage at repair time in that it can be polyjacked. This is easily the least intrusive form of concrete repair that is available. You can raise a slab of arbitrary weight in 15 minutes with a half inch hole. This repair technique will last ~indefinitely if you also have a tough talk with your landscapers about getting water away from the house.
Maybe this is part of it. Where I live, the crawlspace under my home is a fully finished basement with my office and such.
But the more these comments get me thinking, the more I recognize that it’s more subjective than not. I weighted for problems I could tackle slowly over five years, many of them myself, because I worked from home and had two kids under 2. So the home is on a hill with a sump pump that’s dryer than the desert, a solid foundation and new roof, and a few dozen smaller issues like flooring, new carpet, replace lower deck with patio, etc.
Other structural issues can be much worse (mold is one, but think cross beams that miss the load beam).
[1]: https://www.instagram.com/cyfyhomeinspections/
[2]: https://www.cyfyhi.com/
I would have thought that regions that don’t have winter weather would just cheap out on insulation, but they cheap out on the whole thing.
It got me thinking that the mere existence of winter weather kind of sets a minimum standard of quality.
Which is both wrong and short sighted, but I could not get them to budge on acknowledging that other materials would actually be better for houses than wood and some foam.
You can actually search around on the Internet for this query as well and American stubbornness (/ exceptionalism?) once again rears it's head.
The context is that I was shopping around for houses, doing inspections and such, and was merely curious about why homes were constructed in such a way. My home country primarily makes homes out of concrete and brick for heat insulation and it works well, compared to what I have to put up with a Texas heat wave in a wooden house currently.
I'm not entirely sure why you're assuming that I had no specific arguments though - I certainly wouldn't put a whole conversation verbatim onto an internet forum.
He has a lot of content on Youtube, too.
I was interested in a Lennar community before I knew how bad they were and everything from their advisors mouth made my (new to it) real estate agent and I feel icky. They said you can inspect but can only report issues if visible from six feet away, can’t open drawers, can only test one outlet, no roof or basement access. I passed on them and a year later some of the houses flooded because of Lennars negligence when to modified a riverbank.
The trick for the builder is that THEY are the owner until final paper sign - so anything above final pre purchase inspection is not something they have to allow.
Which is why you don’t use them, or go in expecting shiny crap.
Scumbags.
You’ll probably lose, but you’ll harm their bottom line, and if everyone reliably did it they’d be out of business.
Last I heard they were being sued over that community at least.
There is a reason lying is popular. Its easy.
They HAVE to respond with a lawyer, even if you get it thrown out eventually they’ll have spend thousands.
The point is not to win, the point is to cause financial pain. You can’t admit that, but it can be so.
Wasting someone elses time and money for no achievable outcome is the same waste of my time and money and accomplishes nothing. I would get more out of putting a quarter in a pinball machine.
> “There is no bonus for building the house to code, for quality,” Knowles said, to his knowledge. “There’s only bonuses for speed … and volume.” Knowles estimated 100% of all new builds probably have multiple code violations.
This leaves the home buyer having to very quickly assess the quality of the structure and account for this in their offer price. It feels like there's a business in here somewhere... Perhaps do a video call with a home inspector while you attend an open house?
Why in the world should there be a bonus for following the law.
If you want to talk incentives this is one where a stick should be used.
Just two hours of doom scrolling you will learn all the cut corners.
You won't be able to evaluate foundation or walls via a call anyway.
Buying tract homes is hard to avoid the high-volume builders (by definition), but it's entirely possible to avoid bad builders.
do people not consult a lawyer before they buy a home? Also, are the credentials of the builders not checked?
Of course, this is 100% BS. Probably half of realtors lie or turn a blind eye so you will close. 99% of purchasers will never sue their realtor.
What is wild to me is, having a lawyer do your closing is only $500 but having an agent is ~$10k on average.
I bought my first home without a realtor and have no regrets.
I've been in a situation with a "seller's" Realtor (TM) who would just agree to whatever logistical details the buyers were asking, and then tell us how we had to dance to their tune. The attorney set them all straight, but it never should have gotten to that point. The same Realtor (TM) bungled the one house showing that I wasn't around to facilitate, setting off the alarm system that we had warned her about multiple times - including specifically for that showing. I'm sure prospective homeowners love being greeted by a loud siren. There was some other last-minute problem too that I'm not recalling the details of, but we ended up emailing the owner of her agency and told them we wanted someone else to represent us at the closing. She was that bad, but of course she had talked a really good game to get us to sign that lock-in exclusive contract at the start. Getting that contract signed is the Realtor's (TM) chief KPI, and they know it.
Of course Sturgeon's law and all that. I'm sure there are realtors who take their duties seriously. And I'm sure some people have had the complete opposite experience with poor attorneys. The incentives for Realtors (TM) are just much poorer though.
And if you sue pro-se they have to spend billable hours to prove you can’t sue them, and that’s a pain to them.
* https://www.tarion.com/homeowners/the-new-home-warranty
Of course big(ger) builders have legal departments that can stonewall you and cause all sorts of delay. Further, depending on what the problem is, it may basically be 'unfixable' short of tearing down the house and re-designing/building it taking actual building science into account.
An example for the latter case, a homeowner couple spent six years fighting the builder before finally settling (the day before the trial began) and taking a buy out. A video with the building science consultant (Corbett Lunsford) they hired to debug the issue:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWeCiWbbffI
Having a warranty is one thing, exercising is can be an entirely different challenge. There’s typically a one-year workmanship warranty and then longer warranties on HVAC/plumbing and structural/foundation. Materials and equipment in the home will have varying warranty periods on the item in question.
Here is a recent Lennar warranty brochure: https://photos.harstatic.com/384985574/supplement/pdf-4.pdf?...
Which is the point of the second half of my comment and the link to an interview with folks that had this exact problem. (Also why I started with the word "theoretically", as how actual legal coverage works in practice can be different.)
Lots of the cost come with fixing up that mess the next time something breaks.
I purchased a dresser from Restoration Hardware back in 2001 as a recent grad and it's quality is unbelievable by todays standards: dovetail joinery, excellent wood, etc. Now I go and look at furniture and I'd have to spend (what I consider to be, lol) a car's worth of money for anything close to it.
Developers know people are desperate at the moment and they shoot for quality standards commensurate with that.
I sell construction work mostly as a subcontractor, and I can definitely tell which of my customers rely on squeezing their subs to maximize their margins (JCI, Siemens, Honeywell and other global multinationals) and those that would like us both to make decent money (pretty much everyone else that doesn’t have a market cap in the billions, excluding some GCs I’ll not name) and while the big boys have a lot of work, doing projects with the latter companies is a lot more enjoyable.
Now that is not to say that this story is false, or even that the business model is necessarily bad, I will leave that up to you to decide. But this media source has a different set of motivations than most readers are used to. You'll notice that the news is about two US companies that are easily shortable, DHI and LEN.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunterbrook