8m Users' AI Conversations Sold for Profit by "privacy" Extensions
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The revelation that a "privacy-focused" VPN extension was secretly selling users' AI conversations has sparked a heated debate about the trustworthiness of browser extensions. Commenters pointed out that many popular extensions, including uBlock Origin, require broad access to user data, raising concerns about their potential for exploitation. While some users defended uBlock Origin, arguing that its ad-blocking benefits outweigh the risks, others advocated for a more cautious approach, disabling JavaScript or limiting their extension installations to a vetted few. As users sought solutions, tips emerged on how to disable auto-updating for extensions and manually manage their own versions.
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With those extensions the user's data and internet are the product, most if not all are also selling residential IP access for scrapers, bots, etc.
Good thing Google is protecting users by taking down such harmful extensions as ublock origin instead.
(for firefox/derivatives anyways...)
Additionally, Brave a chromium based browser has adblocking built into the browser itself meaning it is not affected by webextention changes and does not require trusting an additional 3rd party.
That can be circumnavigated by bundling the conversations into one POST to an API endpoint, along with a few hundred calls to several dummy endpoints to muddy the waters. Bonus points if you can make it look like an normal-passing update script.
It'll still show up in the end, but at this point your main goal is to delay the discovery as much as you can.
Sometimes things don't make sense to me, like how "Uber Driver app access background location and there is no way to change that from settings" - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/783227
Or they'd tell WhatsApp to allow granting microphone permissions for one single call, instead of requesting permanent microphone permissions. All apps that I know of respect the flow of "Ask every time", all but Meta's app.
Google just doesn't care.
The developer documentation is actually pretty clear about this: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/bundleresources/ch...
> Urban Cyber Security INC
https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_de/5136044
https://www.urbancybersec.com/about-us/
I found two addresses:
> 1007 North Orange Street 4th floor Wilmington, DE 19801 US
> 510 5th Ave 3rd floor New York, NY 10036 United States
and even a phone number: +1 917-690-8380
https://www.manhattan-nyc.com/businesses/urban-cyber-securit...
They look really legitimate on the outside, to the point that there's a fair chance they're not aware what their extension is doing. Possibly they're "victim" of this as well.
The NY address is a virtual office.
https://themillspace.com/wilmington/
The DE address is a virtual office plus coworking facility.
You run a business from home but do not want to reveal you personal address to the world.
You are from a country that Stripe doesn’t support but need to make use of their unique capabilities like Stripe Connect, then you might sign up for Stripe Atlas to incorporate in the USA so you can do business directly with Stripe. Your US business then needs a US physical address ie virtual office.
Etc
If that looks use-italics "really legitimate" to you, then you might be easily scammed. I'm not saying they're not legitimate, but nothing that you shared is a strong signal of legitimacy.
It would take a perhaps a few hundred dollars a month to maintain a business that looked exactly like this, and maybe a couple thousand to buy one that somebody else had aged ahead of time. You wouldn't have to have any actual operations. Just continuously filed corporate papers, a simple brochure website, and a couple virtual office accounts in places so dense that people don't know the virtual address sites by heart.
Old advice, but be careful believing what you encounter on the internet!
> Old advice, but be careful believing what you encounter on the internet!
Try to not be terminally cringe either?
And also, why extension for vpn? I live in country where almost everybody uses vpn just to watch YouTube and read twitter, and none of my friends uses some strange extensions. There are open source software for that - from real vpn like wireguard, to proxy software like nekoray/v2raytun. Browser extension is the last thing I would install to be private.
Why are you asking me that?
HN guidelines: Assume good faith.
> What, there's an issue because I'm not being underhanded about it like [that] guy?
Wow you’ve put something into words here I never consciously realized is an unwritten rule. Sounds silly but yea you’re 100% right; that seems to be exactly the game we play.
For better or for worse.
Based on what? The same instinct that told you having an address and phone number makes an entity legitimate? The chance the people behind this company live in the US is incredibly low. And even if they do live in the US what exactly would they be getting charged with and who would care enough to charge them?
Or maybe people are just being intentionally uncharitable to so they can harp on whatever. I don't care.
> This company has been on researchers' radar before. Security researchers Wladimir Palant and John Tuckner at Secure Annex have previously documented BiScience's data collection practices. Their research established that:
> BiScience collects clickstream data (browsing history) from millions of users Data is tied to persistent device identifiers, enabling re-identification The company provides an SDK to third-party extension developers to collect and sell user data
> BiScience sells this data through products like AdClarity and Clickstream OS
> The identical AI harvesting functionality appears in seven other extensions from the same publisher, across both Chrome and Edge:
Hmm.
> They look really legitimate on the outside
Hmm, what, no.
We have a data collection company, that thrives financially on lack of privacy protection and the indiscriminant collection and collating of data, connected to eight data siphoning "Violate Privacy Network" apps.
And those apps are free... Which is seriously default sketchy if you can't otherwise identify some obviously noble incentives to offer free services/candy to strangers.
Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three (or eight) times is enemy action.
BiScience is an Israeli company.
1000 N. WEST ST. STE. 1501, WILMINGTON, New Castle, DE, 19801
It almost matches this law firms address but not quite.
https://www.skjlaw.com/contact-us/
Brandywine Building 1000 N. West Street, Suite 1501 Wilmington DE 19801
I do think security researchers would be able to figure out what scripts are downloaded and run.
Regardless, none of this seems to matter to end users whether the script is in the extension or external.
If so, I feel like something that limited is hardly even a browser extension interface in the traditional sense.
So you can still do everything you could before, but it’s not as hidden anymore
In much of the physical world thankfully there's laws and pretty-effective enforcement against people clubbing you on the head and taking your stuff, retail stores selling fake products and empty boxes, etc.
But the tech world is this ever-boiling global cauldron of intangible software processes and code - hard to get a handle on what to even regulate. Wish people would just be decent to each other, and that that would be culturally valued over materialism and moneymaking by any possible means. Perhaps it'll make a comeback.
I spend a lot of time trying to think of concrete ways to improve the situation, and would love to hear people's ideas. Instinctively I tend to agree it largely comes down to treating your users like human beings.
Get as off-grid as you possibly can. Try to make your everyday use of technology as deterministic as possible.
Part of the problem has been that there's a mountain to climb vis a vis that extra ten miles to take something that 'works for me' and turn it into 'gramps can install this and it doesn't trigger his alopecia'.
Rather, that was the problem. If you're looking for a use case for LLMs, look no further. We do actually have the capacity to build user-friendly stuff at a fraction of the time cost that we used to.
We can make the world a better place if we actually give a shit. Make things out in the open, for free, that benefit people who aren't in tech. Chip away at the monopolies by offering a competitive service because it's the right thing to do and history will vindicate you instead of trying to squeeze a buck out of each and every thing.
I'm not saying "don't do a thing for money". You need to do that. We all need to do that. But instead of your next binge watch or fiftieth foray into Zandronum on brutal difficulty, maybe badger your llm to do all the UX/UI tweaks you could never be assed to do for that app you made that one time, so real people can use it. I'm dead certain that there are folks reading this now who have VPN or privacy solutions they've cooked up that don't steal all your data and aren't going to cost you an arm and a leg. At the very least, someone reading this has a network plugin that can sniff for exfiltrated data to known compromised networks (including data brokers) - it's probably just finicky to install, highly technical, and delicate outside of your machine. Tell claude to package that shit so larry luddite can install it and reap the benefits without learning what a bash is or how to emacs.
Personally I feel it's everything from the ground up - silicon IC's through to device platforms and cloud services. But we need a plan to chip away at the problem one bite at a time.
But if you’re talking about building hardware… that feels like something the NSA would be happy to be involved with whether you want them to be or not. I’d vote for an 80/20 solution that gets people protected from some of the most rampant data mining going on by corporations vs. state actors.
The other issue to keep in mind is that the tech ecosystem absolutely will suffocate anything like this by disabling access to their apps / website with this OS. So at the end of the day I really don’t know if there’s a solution to any of this.
If this were a paid extension and it behaved this way, I would agree that something is wrong. But it is free.
People often forget that developers are humans too, and as humans they still need to earn money to pay for food and a place to live, even when they offer free tools.
There are honest ways to make a living. In this case honest is “being transparent” about the way data is handled instead of using newspeak.
It roughly means that absolutely nothing is free (but it is explained in more NSW way).
"Let us handle all your internet traffic.. you can trust us.. we're free!"
No thank you.
But considering those are browser extensions, I think they can just inspect any traffic they want on the client side (if they can get such broad permissions approved, which is probably not too hard).
That's why TLS exists, after all. All Internet traffic is wiretapped.
But it's cumbersome.
Maybe some
> "Let us handle all your internet traffic.. you can trust us.. []"
TLS does not help, when most Internet traffic is passed through a single entity, which by default will use an edge TLS certificate and re-encrypt all data passing through, so will have decrypted plain text visibility to all data transmitted.
VPNs are just one example. How many chrome extensions do you have that you don't use all the time, like adblockers, cookie consent form handlers or dark mode?
but other than that I would never trust anything other than Mullvad/IVPN/ProtonVPN
Meanwhile reputable VPN provider like mullvad offer there service without KYC and leave feds empty handed when they knock on there doors.
https://mullvad.net/en/blog/mullvad-vpn-was-subject-to-a-sea...
Or you mean the web sites packed with a copy of chromium?
> Firefox is committed to helping protect you against third-party software that may inadvertently compromise your data – or worse – breach your privacy with malicious intent. Before an extension receives Recommended status, it undergoes rigorous technical review by staff security experts.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/recommended-extensions-...
I know that Google hates to pay human beings, but this is an area that needs eyes on code.
https://robwu.nl/crxviewer/
> Before an extension receives Recommended status, it undergoes rigorous technical review by staff security experts.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/recommended-extensions-...
This is what the Firefox add-ons team sent to me when one of my extensions was invited to the Recommended program:
> If you’re interested in Control Panel for Twitter becoming a Firefox Recommended Extension there are a couple of conditions to consider:
> 1) Mozilla staff security experts manually review every new submission of all Recommended extensions; this ensures all Recommended extensions remain compliant with AMO’s privacy and security standards. Due to this rigorous monitoring you can expect slightly longer review wait times for new version submissions (up to two weeks in some cases, though it’s usually just a few days).
> 2) Developers agree to actively maintain their Recommended extension (i.e. make timely bug fixes and/or generally tend to its ongoing maintenance). Basically we don't want to include abandoned or otherwise decaying content, so if the day arrives you intend to no longer maintain Control Panel for Twitter, we simply ask you to communicate that to us so we can plan for its removal from the program.
Yes.
What I saw in Mozilla extensions store was anything from using minified code (what is this? it might have been useful in the late 90's on the web, but it surely is not necessary as part of an extension, that doesn't download its code from anywhere), to just full on data stealing code (reported, and mozilla removed it after 2 weeks or so).
I don't trust the review process one bit if they allow minified code in the store.
Also, I just stopped using third party extensions, except for 2 (violentmonkey, ublock), so I no longer do reviews. I had a script that would extract the XPI into a git repository before update, do a commit and show me a diff.
Friendly extension store for security conscious users would make it easy to review source code of the extension before hitting install or update. This is like the most security sensitive code that exists in the browser.
Often they're compiled with typescript etc making manual review almost impossible.
And if you demand the developer send in the raw uncompiled stuff you have the difficulty of Google/Mozilla having to figure out how to compile an arbitrary project which could use custom compilers or compilation steps.
Remember that someone malicious wont hide their malicious code in main.ts... it's gonna be deep inside a chain of libraries (which they might control too, or might have vendored).
I=c=>c.map?c[0]?c.reduce((a,b)=>a[b=I(b)]||a(b),self):c[1]:c
(How it works is an exercise to the reader)
The actual code to run can be delivered as an innocuous looking JavaScript array from some server, and potentially only delivered to one high value target.
Mozilla allows minification but you're required to provide the original buildable source. Mozilla actually looks at the code and they reject updates all the time.
https://blog.chromium.org/2018/10/trustworthy-chrome-extensi...
In JS this can be much harder to find anything suspicious when the code can be minified.
But back to Firefox: My house, my rules. So let external developers set some more strict rules that discourage the bad actors a little.
When a survey was conducted on the misuse of finances and powers, it was found that managers who did not sign the code (because they had to study it and then "forgot" to do so) were more likely to cheat than those who actually signed the documents.
That means they support those that breach your privacy with non-malicious intent.
I think we need both human review and for somebody to create an antivirus engine for code that's on par with the heuristics of good AV programs.
You could probably do even better than that since you could actually execute the code, whole or piecewise, with debugging, tracing, coverage testing, fuzzing and so on.
[1] https://secureannex.com/blog/cyberhaven-extension-compromise.... [2] https://secureannex.com/blog/sclpfybn-moneitization-scheme/ (referenced in the article)
And um, a boy and a girl.
...
Anyway, the thing was that one day they started acting kinda funny. Kinda, weird.
They started being seen exchanging tokens of affection. And it was rumoured they were engaging in...
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