Kroger Acknowledges That Its Bet on Robotics Went Too Far
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Kroger's high-tech robotics gamble has backfired, with the company acknowledging that its automated fulfillment centers were too far from customers, leading to disappointing results. As commenters dissect the failure, some point out that Amazon's similar "Micro-Fulfillment Center" approach might be more effective, with one noting that Amazon's Whole Foods orders often originate from existing warehouses rather than in-store fulfillment. The discussion reveals a divide between those who value the human touch in grocery shopping, with some appreciating the ability to hand-pick produce, and those who prioritize convenience, tipping delivery shoppers for good selections. Amidst the debate, a consensus emerges that Kroger's misstep might be attributed to poor location choices rather than a fundamental flaw in automation.
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That makes sense to me.
Feels like we’re going to have warehouse scale vending machines in cities, and delivery bots taking them from the warehouse-vending-machine to the customer.
Because tips are important to the income of delivery shoppers, I find that I generally get good produce selections. It might be difficult to transition that particular incentive to robots, but the point is that delivery items don't have to suck.
The only thing I really still pick out by hand every time are beef briskets. Pork shoulders tend to be uniform enough that randomly picking a cryovac works out, but there's a good bit of variation in brisket that makes a difference with the final product, at least when the brisket is prepared with a smoker. YMMV
In any event, delivery doesn't always mean the worst of the produce aisle, and while I noted that the incentive of tips might not transfer to robots, keeping repeat customers might be enough incentive for a way to be found to not make robots and grocery synonymous with only frozen food. That might mean human pickers; better automation on the food selection system; pre-inspected, washed and packaged fruits & veggies; etc.
Wait, you tip to get a good selection of produce to be delivered to you? This is very bizarre to me.
With Instacart & Costco memberships and also ordering from the local discount grocers, I can get food delivered for less than it costs to actually go to the mainstream grocery stores like Von's, and I don't get bruised eggplants or cilantro that's already going bad. The drivers/shoppers are generally quite good at picking out items that can lead to higher tips (that or they're just in it for the love of good produce, but either way you can often tell they're not randomly loading the bags).
> Fenyo added that Kroger’s decision to locate the Ocado centers outside of cities turned out to be a key flaw.
> “Ultimately those were hard places to make this model work,” said Fenyo. “You didn’t have enough people ordering, and you had a fair amount of distance to drive to get the orders to them. And so ultimately, these large centers were just not processing enough orders to pay for all that technology investment you had to make.”
There's probably still room for automation, but it might have to be different than warehouse automation.
If a basket of groceries brought online costs $15 more than the in-store prices, then you can pick in-store profitably, very easy. That's the instacart model.
But if a basket of groceries brought online costs the same as buying in-store? With the retailer bearing the costs of picking, packing and delivery instead of the customer?
Well then you need something more efficient than a store.
I've also noticed this with hardware stores like Lowes. If I place a pickup order they more often than not will pawn off on me their broken, returned, or even used and damaged stock. Items like building wrap will have soil and rips on it, concrete will be spoiled from moisture, lumber will be all the most warped pieces, etc etc. It's like clockwork, even if the stock sitting on the shelf doesn't have these problems. Due to this there are some stores I will never do a pickup/delivery order from.
There is no delivery service that's cheaper and good enough, or dirt cheap and expected to be awful, but those are large profitable retail operations. The only sector offered is more expensive, which annoys people if they occasionally get a below average item while also paying a lot more.
Delivery is for people who buy tenderloin not ground chuck and they get MAD when their tenderloin isn't perfect.
Agree a lot of modern delivery businesses involve "self-employed" drivers getting paid a pittance and using their own vehicle and fuel, though.
On two separate occasions, I stopped by Walmart recently and spent $0.50 extra and $1.50 extra by walking in, going to the aisle, and picking up the item myself.
The Walmart app even tells you that the price on the app is only for online orders. But I didn’t want to wait for an unknown amount of time for a Walmart employee to bring it out to my car (been more than 10 to 15min a few times).
So basically, I pay extra to avoid that volatility in time to run that errand, and I do more work for it.
I find your Wal-Mart anecdote interesting, because the chain supermarket that I use is the exact opposite.
I buy the same items from the same store every two weeks (then supplement at neighborhood stores). Sometimes I shop in-store, and sometimes I get delivery. But the two-week shopping list is so unchanging that I even use the shopping list on the delivery web site when I'm walking through the aisles.
Because of this, I notice that the supermarket charges more for products being delivered than those retrieved in-store. Sometimes it's enough that I'll text my wife a picture of the price tag in the store, followed by a screenshot from the store's delivery web site.
Recently from memory, a 12-pack of ginger ale was about $3 more for delivery than in the store. But I'd say overall, probably 80% of the items I buy regularly are cheaper in the store.
These days, I only get things delivered if I have other significant obligations that warrant paying a 10% delivery markup, plus the delivery fee, plus a tip.
I think the price discrepancy between in-store and delivery is the reason that so many supermarkets I've been to recently (and also Macy's) have zero cell phone service under their roofs.
I rarely shop at Wal-Mart. There's only a few things that I buy there.
One of those things is motor oil: Their online pricing for 5 quarts of full-synthetic whatever is usually impossible to beat.
The only catch is that you have to go to the store, park outside, and wait for someone to bring it out. Going inside the store to buy it in person often costs several dollars more (and those dollars count towards the next cheeseburger).
It seems completely asinine for it to be this way, and I feel completely silly waiting outside for someone to bring me a single jug of motor oil and hand it to me through my car window, but it's very clear that they don't want me in the store.
And I'm cheap. So I play their game and let them do it for me.
(It's usually very fast for me, so there's that.)
And I'm glad to stay outside.
(i do recall the chatter that this was their way to compete with publix, although I don't know anyone who actually used it.)
In the AI analogy, never underestimate the productivity of a human when dealing with a giant pile of groceries. You can throw all the AI and robots you can at something but sometimes a $20 an hour human picking from stacks of goods and produce simply destroys it in raw economics
For example, imagine you had an upscaled pneumatic tube system (don't get hung up on the exact implementation, it could be a small gauge train system or conveyer belt whatever floats your Factorio-addled boat) with a diameter around, say, half a metre to a metre, packed goods into canisters and shot into town where they pop out at local distribution centres for pickup or last-mile delivery.
This is where I thought the Boring Company might be going back before it was obvious it was an anti-public transit gambit.
Possibly the curse of rail systems applies where the maintenance of the track (tube) costs so much that it's cheaper to fly (done delivery) or drive all the way on public roads (current solution). The advantage over rail is that the land footprint is very small: the tract is about a metre wide and can be buried if needed. Perhaps it's just not really different enough to trucking it all into town using semi trailers.
Then again, even if this hare-brained system were to work, this assumes we actually want to reduce most human commercial interactions to pods popping out of the ground into a robotic vending station.
Even if it was a good idea (which I doubt, it's just a idle thought), I don't think there's a practical way to retrofit such a system in existing cities due to the costs and presumably private funding for a non-public network, because the public road system exists, needs to continue to exist for large items and can be used for virtually free in comparison. So if/when the depot-to-neighbourhood leg is automated, it's much more likely we'll see drone vehicles on the road or occasionally in the air instead of dedicated pipeline-like delivery systems.
Even without the pipeline, you can conceive of self-diving heavy vehicles pulling up next to local delivery hubs and disgorging thousands of shipping pods into a robotic receiver. From there they either get picked up, droned, Starship'ed, cycled, whatever to the eventual front door.
Sounds very sterile as an experience, but really it's only an optimisation of the small, but highly distributed, remaining segment of inefficiency in the existing global machine that already converts raw materials to a widget or food and gets it to within 100 miles of your house.
Sounds like the sort of idea a con man would pitch. Oh wait...
But presumably it turned out that actually Herrenknecht and Hitachi aren't stupid.
That's not the case for drilling. The Boring Company has no clear proposition about how they would reduce their costs.
They have 4 CFCs and 15-20 "spokes".
There may also be an issue with logistics when it comes to making sure the machines keep running if there is a problem. They can barely keep the ice cream machines running.
Maybe they're just following the trends their own numbers tell them are happening, but I don't think they trust robotics enough to put an area they truly care about under its purview just yet.
But I’ve read they’re effective, apparently, in consistently upselling compared to a human, so I’m guessing that’s their play.
Despite the math working out insanely well for self service checkout, sometimes the gamble still doesn't pay off and the single employee burns through 4 carts faster than 6 self service checkout kiosks.
Costco does pretty good here though, drug stores go slow as hell.
Any reason to like the old way is just nostalgia in my head.
Indeed, but not at McDonalds.
Guess I was right.
Honestly the main problem seems to be most people just don't like buying certain items online, and that doesn't seem to be changing quickly. If Covid didn't break people out of that, I can't think of anything that will.
And FWIW, I think for an online only supermarket you'd expect their website to be pretty amazing, but their competitors are just as good.
(As an aside, they also have some of the best meat and produce you can get in the city without going to a farmers market. So many retail grocery stores lack loading docks, the food handling getting from the truck to the sidewalk to the basement of the store to the shelves is really, really rough especially during the summer months. Skipping that and going warehouse-to-home has advantages)
I associate it more with delivery vans that seem to be in no particular hurry (unlike uber eats / DPD / UPS etc)
It is possible, but you end up spending 10x as much on the building.
Lots of big cities have grocery stores with parking garages under them, doesn’t seem much different.
Also, the backstock is minimal. Stores are designed for turnaround.
Retail stores are logistics. And part of that is product flow. There are trucks coming in every single day. When you buy an item at a store, that item is deducted from the store's inventory, when that item's stock reaches a certain threshold, an order is immediately placed to the distribution center, and that item is loaded onto a truck and could arrive as soon as that night.
There's no reason to keep anything "in the back" except for high demand items that aren't brought in by a vendor and overflow from items that didn't quite fill a shelf.
Bread/snack cakes (Little Debbie, the bakery also does bread), chips, soda, and liquor/beer are typically handled by vendors. Coca-Cola has a guy come out and stock the Coca-Cola products. Frito-Lay has a guy handle the Frito-Lay products. Etc. They don't work for the store in any capacity.
Vendors typically come during the normal operating hours of the store. Bread guys like to be early in the morning. Chip and soda guys have routes and they'll get to you depending on how the rest of their route goes.
As for other stock, for the grocery side, the distribution center usually palletize stock based on aisle. And the pallets come shrinkwrapped on a truck that arrives at the store between 8 and 10. Someone from the store unloads the pallets from the truck into the warehouse. Once the truck is unloaded, they head back to the distribution center. At the store, the pallets are then staged near their respective aisles and workers restock the shelves overnight.
On the general goods side, the stock is loose in the truck, and a team of people unload the truck and palletize it based on department. Then those pallets are staged in the department for stocking by the overnight crew.
Source: my first job was with WalMart. I worked day stock in a few departments on both the grocery and general goods sides. I worked unloading the trucks on the general goods side. I also worked overnight on the general goods side. I've been involved with a good portion of the store side of the restocking. So all of this information is at least 20 years old, some things may have changed. But I've seen the vendors still while I'm shopping, so the broad strokes likelys till apply.
I assumed it was that and that they are there basically every day. Always notable on the days when a snow storm is announced and bread will be completely wiped out. Only to be fully stocked the next day.
The store is the warehouse and the store owner is allowing self service inside the warehouse but not at checkout.
Having robots means you're automating something that your customers would have done for free. The automation is an additional expense and does not reduce your operating costs.
The online grocery business model only works for two types of customers: those who are willing to pay a premium for convenience and those who need some specialty products that local grocers don't sell.
The first market is a competitor to doordash, this either means automating the in-store pickup or the delivery itself.
The second market is actually a drag on your local grocery stores. You don't want to carry niche products that are only interesting to a tiny portion of your market e.g. products for rare food intolerances, groceries for expats. If you want to carry them in your store, you'd want the customer to preorder them themselves, so you know exactly how much you need and then make them pick them up.
Basically the correct business model is in-house doordash (or B2B doordash) combined with preorders.
Ultimately, I was pointing out why a two story grocery store with a "warehouse" on top doesn't make sense. A place to put stuff is not the issue for retail.
But, what you wrote there is a fair way to look at the core issue for Kroger.
The answer is $. It costs too much and land is cheaper than building up (In most places).
The ones in Bellaire and Meyerland are two level with parking (aka flooding space) below the store and a smaller parking lot on the second level with the store. Bellaire also has a fancy fuel cell setup for some reason. The single level HEB in Montrose(ish) was built into the site of an old complex of charming but nearly abandoned standalone quad/duplexes with many mature oaks. They seem to have retained nearly all of the trees on the grounds in greenspaces within the parking lot and entryway.
Here's some street view of Montrose. They also had a bike air and repair system when it opened. I'm not certain if it stayed in good repair itself. https://maps.app.goo.gl/KxHAvDqKca4E8L8a7
Quite shocking to look at because the old one up the street OTR was an absolute shithole, single story, with hoodrats selling foodstamps and drugs out front.
Not quite. Packed yes, but for many vegetables they have both item count and weight-based packages, e.g. "4 potatoes" vs "1kg potatoes".
I think that strikes the right balance.
Basically, each section is like a closed areas with some windows. Customers order at the computers by the windows and flash their membership cards. Robots glide left and right to move 10 samples to the customer, in an arm with rotating clips. Customers can press a button to rotate the samples, observe them, and place an order by pressing a button. Samples not chosen are temporarily stocked at the window as a “stack”.
In each closed section, there are humans who monitors and maintains the robots, and occasionally fetch samples when robots stop working (hopefully it too often, you know those 9s).
At the exit, a human worker assembles the packages and hand them to the customers with a smile. Customers have a last chance to return unwanted items.
Why was it a retro futuristic dream? Because the customers have the option to go into a bakery to enjoy a cup of coffee/tea, some cake and socialize with fellow customers. All of them looked like the men and women from advertisement from Fallout 4.
I’d like to shop or even help build one of these.
TBH, now that I think about it, the dream was way more vague than what I described in the reply. My brain probably reasoned about the idea subconsciously.
https://www.untappedcities.com/automats-cafeterias-nyc/
The only exception in warehouse was the cafeteria. I guess my brain wanted to make something retro futuristic so it made the cafeteria “retro” — manned by humans and cooked by humans too. There were even balloons inside now that I recall…
Basically a catalogue store without shipping to your door.
>In the 1990s, Consumers Distributing struggled to compete with Zellers and then Walmart Canada. Consumers Distributing sought bankruptcy protection in 1996.
And Zellers went under just a few years ago...
If you pre-order it's waiting at the desk. Very handy for people who can order from the job site on the account and send the lad round to grab it.
And a (relatively) unshittified website too because if jobbing tradies can't use the damn thing because it's too loaded down with ads and bullshit, they just won't.
IKEA is kind of like that also, but you have to get everything yourself after picking it out upstairs. And Sears might have been like this at some point before I was born.
I do research price, though, so if they show a big DISCOUNT sign and is more or less honest with it, I'll probably grab some, too.
Then in the 90s they were all washed away by the new ones.
[1] https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/keedoozle-automated-store-p...
One can imagine if a fundamentally similar store today took the world by storm, and the profusion of news stories asserting that the founder is a genius visionary, with nary a peep for Clarence Saunders et al.
Here’s my idea: instant teleportation.
I expect to be credited
Or to give a real-world example: The Wright brothers did some great work on making aircraft steerable and doing wind-tunnel tests, but working planes were mostly a product of ICE engines finally reaching sufficient power-to-weight ratios, not of the Wright brother's being unique geniuses. They were the first in a long line of people trying to build heavier-than-air aircraft that had the necessary technology to make it work
Arguably this model has a great deal of compatibility with robotic compact storage, especially in high-land-value areas.
> Piggly Wiggly was the first self-service grocery store.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piggly_Wiggly#History
These are featured in several cultural references, such as the 1962 Delbert Mann film That Touch of Mink, and PDQ Bach's "Concerto for Horn and Hardart" (being named after a prominent New York City automat chain).
Mink: <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Y3GXMB4VPY8>
Concerto: <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=NT6bxlnS1Is>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Products
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc_6wfDYuFU
Here is the story
https://www.facebook.com/100064532630592/posts/pfbid0DYoPXet...
But I do think it's a coincidence. They're shutting down facilities in multiple states and that lawsuit isn't even a tenth of a percent of the relevant costs.
> Fenyo added that Kroger’s decision to locate the Ocado centers outside of cities turned out to be a key flaw.
They over-spent on automating low-volume FCs. You could draw comparisons to Amdahl's law, they optimised the bit that wasn't the issue, the real issue was delivery distances and times.
Ocado has had good success with the robotics approach in the UK, because the UK is very high density compared to a lot of the US. Plus Ocado put a lot of work into creating good delivery routes, whereas it sounds like that wasn't a component of the automation stack that Kroger bought.
> You didn’t have enough people ordering, and you had a fair amount of distance to drive to get the orders to them
It's clearly not a technology problem, but it was made worse by heavily investing in robotics for locations that already couldn't sustain a fulfillment center.
Robotics for picking and the general feasibility of grocery delivery in the US.
Ocado is good because their stock levels are far more accurate than the other supermarkets for online ordering, so you don't get as many substituted/missing items. This is sort of a side effect of having dedicated picking facilities Vs "real" supermarkets. I would not be surprised if they "lose" less stock as well compared to in supermarket fulfillment.
Then you have "is online grocery good in the US"? There's a lot of areas of the US that have reasonable density for this kind of service imo, and the road infrastructure is generally far superior to the UK which negates any loss of density (as you care about time between deliveries, not distance per se). I imagine the much better parking options in most suburbs in the US also helps efficiency (it's an absolute nightmare for a lot of the online delivery cos when there isn't off street parking in the UK and they have to park pretty far from the drop).
It sounds to me that Kroger just messed up the execution of this in terms of "marketing" more than anything.
Just the model. They optimized for tax outcomes. They obviously wanted in on the "Amazon race to the bottom" game.
https://www.leesburg-news.com/2025/11/30/kroger-took-incenti...
> the real issue was delivery distances and times.
Which they could care less about. Where else are you going to go?
According to the article, there were several strategic blunders, including trying the model outside of cities where lack of density cut against it. Plus the apparent dismissal any value their 2700 retail locations could provide.
As far as I can tell, Kroger didn’t acknowledge anything except a change in strategy.
Unsure how the headlines doesn't align. Maybe it's different than what I'm seeing:
> Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far
A proper headline would be something like “facing disappointing results, Kroger shifts robotics strategy”. It’s a subtle but important difference. Main thing being that good writing does not put words in its subjects’ mouths. Unless Kroger actually acknowledged it, you don’t say they did.
This I guess is Robo Kroger.
A weird, dark, maze-like warehouse-feeling Kroger that just closed.
We have a really nice Kroger a bit outside town. I always think of it as the Gucci Kroger.
A college-kid, cheaper Kroger close to the center of town. The cheaper version of the Harris Teeter nearby.
There's as much variation in individual Krogers as between other grocery chains!
I don't know what success looks like but it's probably fair to say they were over-extended by roughly 30-40%.
https://chainstoreage.com/kroger-pay-350-million-automation-...
I'm also skeptical it'll ever work in America due to the general lack of density.
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