Openai Is Good at Deals
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The article discusses OpenAI's deal-making abilities, sparking a heated discussion on HN about the company's valuation, financial practices, and potential market manipulation.
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We don't see that, we see three established players in the frontier model space, and a lot of folks fighting in the second tier category.
Rather: these companies consider it to be a really bad business idea to spend lots of billions for building a new state-of-the-art model that will be obsolete half a year later.
Indeed, I think they burn money with that, but not as much as they would if they were putting all of their eggs into one casket, as the "AI companies" like OpenAI and Anthropic do (or do much more).
There exist multiple (not mutually exclusive) explanations for that:
- Limititing the "money burn rate" on AI is a political compromise that was made at the companies between various decision makers
- The companies hope that at the end even a not state-of-the-art AI model might offer business opportunities
- Perhaps such a model might give you a better "bang per buck" rate (cost of training, cost of running)
- These companies want to get experience with AI, so they currently burn a lot of money of it, but will pivot when their AI models have been out-competed
- Such a pivot could be getting from "state-of-the-art models" to "models that are insanely cheaply to run, while still being powerful"
- Perhaps the decision makers of the respective companies believe in the (not implausible) scenario that AI could from a technical perspective continue improving a lot, but these models will get disproportionally expensive to run, i.e. in the upcoming future AI models won't improve so much anymore because no one will be able to pay for it. In such a case having a slightly worse model is much less of a disadvantage.
You think they wouldn't have rather spent a fraction of that to have a SoTA model?
Meta has no one to compromise with as Zuck is the majority shareholder (voting wise), Apple has so much cash they don't know what to do with it (cars, VR, etc),This argument doesn't hold up for these cash rich top companies.
I find it hard to believe that OpenAI, Anthropic, and Google all aren't optimizing for 'bang for buck' here.It made sense to be on Facebook, because everyone was on Facebook. It made sense to use google, because for a long while they were head and shoulders above the rest.
> Can I have insider knowledge about a company that the company in question doesn't itself know yet?
Yes you can
It's useful to think of this not as "insider knowledge" but the actual term: material non-public information.
Is the information you have material (i.e. will move the stock price)? Is it non-public? Then there you go: it would be ill-advised to trade on it.
Yes. However you can get around it by simply back filing a disclosure (whoops im sorry)after the fact since everyone in congress does it and it has literally never been legally pursued and never will be. I'm not being sarcastic something like 80% of congress disclosures are 2 years late or more. I don't remember the exact numbers but its insane. Just another spin on too big to fail, they can't arrest us because they would have to arrest all of congress and collapse the country.
If I give my brother/neighbor 100k and tell him to spend it at my business then I go to a bank citing huge demand for my business and get a loan for 10 million based on that it is called fraud and the bank would spare no expense to send me to jail and get their money back. The Judge would with 100% certainty send me to jail and give me a lecture about how we live in a society and I broke that trust to take advantage of that society. That they are absolutely disgusted by my lack of ethics and morality.
When these companies do it apparently its just good business.
A non-profit parent entity with a wholly owned for-profit subsidiary (actually, the non-profit wholly owns and controls a third "manager" entity which in turn is the controlling but not majority shareholder of the for-profit subsidiary) where the profit of the for-profit entity is "capped" and oh by the way, that for-profit subsidiary has a 49% shareholder who happens to be Microsoft (but despite a 49% stake gets 75% of their profit..........until their initial investment is recouped). Employees get Profit Participation Units (PPUs) which are NOT equity but which entitle employees to a percentage of profits, again up to the "cap". Then of course, when OpenAI achieves AGI, whatever the hell that is is, then everything from that point forward reverts back to the non-profit entity.
I know it's changed since then, but it has always been a sort of financial Rube Goldberg contraption setup.
Keep raising 10x more for each round of scaling and very quickly you get large enough to be able to bully anyone into playing with you.
Sama got big enough to be able to twist any arm he wants and soon OpenAI will be too large to fail.
Sure Bank of America could fail and US Government can’t back it but that’s likely massive upheaval in United States.
The whole US economy is getting propped up by AI spending, and to continue on the scaling law ladder each new iteration requires 10x more investment. If OpenAI is not able to raise it's over for anyone adjacent to them (NVIDIA, AMD, Anthropic, etc.).
It's AGI or bust for OpenAI, because as you said there's no margin competing on API tokens since open source is almost as good for most use cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis
From your post, it seems that you resent OpenAI for something, but I don't really understand what. Could you please clarify?
I personally believe that LLM "AI" is a 'bubble', but I am not sure it will end soon enough to be worth shorting players' stocks. If you believe that this 'craze' will end suddenly and soon, would it not be better to just invest accordingly, and profit from their 'absurd' behaviour?
Show me your positions. If you’re not short (or at the very least, hedged) you don’t really believe what you’re saying.
It’s a bit like saying you think the rapture is tomorrow, while you’re still contributing to your 401k…
I think requiring everyone to disclose their positions would make these conversations much more interesting.
Or company announces plan to buy Bitcoin, but doesn't actually do so. Buys call options before the announcement. Sells call options after the stock surges and uses proceeds and inflated stock to issue secondary offering to buy the Bitcoin, and buys puts before the secondary offering, also funding the BTC purchase. Stock returns to original price. Net result is free BTC.
There are tons of financial tricks by taking advantage of materially important news and the ability to 'create money out of thin air' by exploiting price swings.
1) (referring to the Antifraud Company) "...they call themselves “a private-sector DOGE” -- Not exactly putting your best foot forward.
2) OpenAI paid $6.5B for Jony Ive's year old startup. That's a 'B'. Sure, stock is funny money, but it's difficult to defend the overpaying here. A lot of money seems to have been lit on fire.
AMD signs AI chip-supply deal with OpenAI, gives it option to take a 10% stake
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45490549
https://www.ainvest.com/news/trump-ai-crypto-czar-sacks-nvid...
In today's episode Lutnick puts a UAE deal on hold until the UAE invests in the US. Things like this are going on daily. Lutnick's Cantor & Fitzgerald also handles Tether (located in El Salvador) collateral.
I'd be very surprised if "Open" "AI" did not get help from their new best friends in all those magical deals. Watch out if AMD gets any favors in the next month.