The Digital Markets Act: Time for a Reset
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Google is pushing back against the EU's Digital Markets Act, claiming it hinders innovation and hurts consumers, but many commenters see this as a self-serving attempt to maintain its market dominance.
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I get they THINK they do.
But I don’t think they do.
We should be happy that Google and Apple don't charge us more for all their hard work. If they leave there are no other phone manufacturers in the world, Europe would simply return to the dark ages.
I’m sure the EU won’t take a dim view of this at all.
“Senator, we’d like racketeering laws repealed. They’re making running our protection rackets much harder. How are we supposed to innovate for our customers if you keep making new kinds of threats illegal?”
It makes it easier to not offer functionality in Europe. Because to offer the functionality in Europe you have to do the extra work of making sure any competitor who could go crying to the euro officials can plausibly inject a competing thing with equal integration.
They pride themselves as being privacy and security minded when releasing new products.
They already have mechanisms to trust some accessories and apps ("my watch" vs. "your watch"). Just offer the same to devices not made by them.
If the user then decides to install the (probably illegal) "Meta Spy Master 9000 App" then so be it.
They are adults after all.
The DMA very explicitly disagrees with the notion of "Apple knows best" and until the tech giants come to terms with that, their comments on the laws cannot be trusted.
I would love to see them cooperate because then, over time, their considerable technical knowledge could be used to work out the details.
One should be able to "mix and match ecosystems" so to speak and expect that any accessory will work to the same level, with the same features as a first party one.
Why shouldn't third parties be able to integrate using AWDL to enable bluetooth earbud device switching and AirDrop across operating systems, for example. Why shouldn't a WearOS watch be able to have the same notification handling and messaging capabilities as an Apple Watch on iOS? Let my windows PC have a shared clipboard with my iPhone just like my mac can, etc.
All they need to do is implement it in a way that still allows competitors to do their thing. Wha
Maybe the EU should actually foster an environment where tech companies can grow and compete.
Why not regulate Spotify as part of the DMA then?
And when things go wrong or you want to change something, I would much rather deal with the hotel directly than deal with a third party.
I have been to London and found plenty of choices for Hilton. Looking at our bucket list for the next few years (we started traveling a lot post 2021), I’m looking at Hyatts in Spain (Barcelona, Seville and Madrid), in Australia and Japan.
It’s not until I get to countries in Africa where I can’t find many chains. In big cities in Europe, Australia and Asia, the American chains are ubiquitous.
“But it would kill streaming music!“
If your business model doesn’t work without screwing over the producer of goods, perhaps your business model just doesn’t work.
And it's not like the average artist made a ton of money before Spotify, there has long been a high supply of artists, which in theory keeps their pay down. (higher supply -> lower price)
And yes yes it isnt perfect. But the crying and weeping of the big American tech companies show that it is working as intended.
No, you are. I suggested they're not exactly a small player, considering that DMA is trying to also appeal to local entrepreneurs/startups - and not stand for consumers too.
Personally i use any channel that suits my need and budget, including Booking, Google, etc, but DMA is regulating for 450million people so, I can see their side of argument.
> Why not regulate Spotify
what about them? not a Spotify user - so what can they do that say YT Music, Amazon Music, Apple etc aren't allowed?
The problem with the EU in general is that every time they try to pass a law they run into the pesky problem of free will and users preferring the offerings of the BigTech companies not realizing that all of the laws they pass further entrench the big companies because they have the resources to both desk with the regulations and they can create and nurture their business in more favorable countries like the US and then use those resources to expand.
The reason that the tech environment is so anemic in the EU is not because there aren’t enough laws and regulation.
I'm sure there's some political push or at least sign of support behind it happening now. "Our big beautiful tech companies blah blah blah..."
Then again, what would've been the domain name, x.x ? oh boy.
"Applied-for gTLD strings in ASCII must be composed of three or more visually distinct characters. Two-character ASCII strings are not permitted, to avoid conflicting with current and future country-codes based on the ISO 3166-1 standard."
https://newgtldprogram.icann.org/en
But it’s all cool, we are standing up for the tech feudalists.
Speaking of property rights, creating new smaller monopolies is in no way “pro-producer.” Nobody truly benefits by robbing the other, it’s as shortsighted “benefit” as it can be. We need long-term predictable policies that don’t criminalize what is, in fact, not criminal.
Otherwise it can be both anti-producer and anti-consumer, too.
As a EU citizen I don’t see why those companies should have the disproportionate amount of control and oversight in our daily lives they have today while our bureaucracies are stuck in a constant game of cat and mouse against them, as they have proven countless times they see EU regulation as hurdles to be worked around rather than fundamental rules to play by.
That's the real harm to competition, and why the Digital Markets Act is a great idea.
Fuck Google et al. maintaining their market hegemonies.
In order to build a better web browser, once should not also have to build a highly trafficked search engine AND a widely deployed mobile phone OS.
Yet that's exactly the situation that missing monopoly enforcement has allowed to come into being...
I’m not arguing the status who is good, more “is it too late to fix?”
Nobody that is not a developer loves an OS, and there's a large subset of developers who don't even care that much.
Frankly declaring a civilization dead over not doing what you want sounds very much like an egocentric "elite tantrum". Like all of the arrogants who think that they can know the best interests of others better than them in spite of the fact that every time that has tried it just amounts to an unaccountable autocracy. After all the nobility were supposed to 'know better' for the peasantry and represent them.
The major issue is the massive web index since that would take a lot of capital and time to recreate but there are already various alternatives that could get better with use. For the commercial web it doesn't matter as much since it's always evolving anyway and every big website already has its own search engine. Would be inconvenient at first but not something that would affect people's lives as drastically as tech people like to think.
https://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html
We need a full reset from them. Countries should get their powers back. Take it back from the non elected EU bureaucrats.
There are some very worrisome things going on in the EU with Chat Control, Ministry of Truth, Digital ID Systems, and Central Bank Digital Currencies.
Each individual piece will be introduced to fix something or prevent something. But it is a slippery slope to also use it for something else, and more and more. Before we know it we will live in a continent that is ruled by an authoritarian mob like in China.
In perhaps one of the weirder twists of fate you probably have more options for voting on where your documents get saved now than at any other time in computing history. And if you would respond that many of those aren’t viable alternatives to windows or incur massive switching costs, what about doing a “reset” / ban solves that problem?
But I would suggest that installing a new OS is vastly less complicated, less expensive, less disruptive and less fraught with life threatening peril than immigrating to an entirely new country and continent. And I’d wager you’re vastly more likely to get the results you want changing your OS than you are voting for a politician when you’re unhappy with the current state of things.
you need special HW for this
> chrome os
i once searched for a download link
> red hat
I tought it costs money
> nix
"never heard about it" /s
> haiku os
does it run on x86 ?
You forgot plan9, Ilumnos and AIX. /s
The EU has been trying to do that for as long as I can remember and they have little to show for it. What reason is there to believe this will suddenly produce useful results?
I’m not allowed to divulge that information. Can you tell me where to apply?
However, most other EU programmes do allow and even claim to encourage free software companies to apply.
I don't think you appreciate quite how much easier it is to write down rules and use your populace as economic hostages to get fines out of companies created in places with good economic policies, than it is to make your own stuff internally.
Saying that they need first for there to be no alternatives and then they will produce something better should raise some major red flags. You wouldn't accept an exclusivity contract of that nature with your grocery store but accepting it for your communications? Not to mention the real reason for such protectionism goes unspoken: more government spying and backdoors and more censorship and control. That was why China rolled their own.
Because they pay for it. Sincerely, the EC.
No thanks, just fund local-only and self-hosted open source instead.
Ask your lawyers? They can parkour through the most complex laws when you need European tax loopholes.
It’s not like the DMA outlaws software. It deals with certain practices, and makes certain business models pretty untenable.
But it doesn’t just ban everything.
In my liberal view it sounds awful for users and entrepreneurs alike. Wondering what are the arguments in favor (other than "apple/google = bad").
E.g.
Consider the DMA’s impact on Europe’s tourism industry. The DMA requires Google Search to stop showing useful travel results that link directly to airline and hotel sites, and instead show links to intermediary websites that charge for inclusion. This raises prices for consumers, reduces traffic to businesses, and makes it harder for people to quickly find reliable, direct booking information.
I'm not following. How does DMA help with this?
Instead, Google needs to send the user to a 3P website, which may or may not have the information the user is looking for. And the 3P website needs to monetize its traffic, so you should expect another wave of ads (in addition to the ones you already saw at google.com), plus cookie consent banners, affiliate links, offer for hotels, car rental, etc.
Is this a better experience for users?
The DMA ensures a healthy competitive market which keeps enshittification at bay by keeping "using a competing service" a viable threat.
- My mobile operator wanted to charge me $6/MB for data roaming, until the anti-business EU regulation killed the golden goose. Roaming is free across EU. The mobile operator is still in business.
- USB-C not just on iPhone, but also all the crappy gadgets that used to be micro-USB. Consumer prices on electronics probably rose by $0.01 per unit.
- Chip & pin and NFC contactless payments were supported everywhere many years before ApplePay adopted them. European regulators forced banks to make fraud their problem and cooperate to fix it.
- The card payment system got upgraded despite card interchange fees being legally capped to ~0.3%. The bureaucrats killed an innovative business model of ever-increasing merchant fees given back to card owners as cashback, which made everyone else paying the same prices with cash the suckers subsidising the card businesses.
- Apple insinuates they only give 1 year of warranty, but it magically becomes 2 years if you remind them they're in the EU.
3 actually, if bought after 2021
Lmao this is just such a big pile of nothing. Lets let Google and Apple run unchecked so consumers can see a link to a hotel. Yes. Good deal.
curious to read what arguments you have against or in favor?
From what I understand, in European countries (inc EU) both public and private sector rely predominantly on US and Asian imports for Computer Hardware, Software and Digital Services.
With DMA, they're looking to level the playing fields for local entrepreneurs, and likewise for small firms from say, developing economies such as in Africa or Middle East for example (the neighborhood).
Also worth noting, that, Europe has a massive problem with brain-drain and a rapidly aging population. If local entrepreneurs can't compete with Asian or US tech giants, they have to move to Asia or the USA.
Apple says it may stop shipping to the EU
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515
However, on the other side, if the EU does manage to drive Apple or Google out I wonder if that would cause them real problems from citizens.
Regulations can certainly be nice but at a certain point people may get very annoyed by the results to the point of wanting them removed, even if they’re doing a good job at exactly what they were designed for. Simply because they’re inconveniencing people through the fault of the company making the device.
If you were to run a poll what percent of people would be willing to just give up the smartphone brand they like for something that isn’t android or iOS for the sake of DMA enforcement?
The drug maybe too strong to resist.
Yeah, the problem is - what is that? It doesn't exist because the duopoloy has successfully shut out all other potential entrants.
HarmanyOS maybe? So the EU just exchanges being dependent on US tech for Chinese tech?
I think something does need to be done, this duopoly is clearly abusive at this point, but we need to some how incentivize development of another, preferably open source, option and then protect it.
All you want is complete control, as evidenced by your intention to lock down devices against their actual owners. Google is effectively an unelected global government at this point. Piss off!
Apple Demands EU Repeal the Digital Markets Act - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45380690 - Sept 2025 (64 comments)
Apple says it may stop shipping to the EU - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372515 - Sept 2025 (145 comments)
The Digital Markets Act's Impacts on EU Users - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45368848 - Sept 2025 (3 comments)
Isn't it Google killing sideloading, not the DMA?
Remember: New laws are made because someone has been acting in ways society agrees they shouldn’t have been and this DEFINITELY applies to big tech companies. It’s a testament to how bad your behavior must have been if we go through all the trouble to come up with a law to forbid it.
> We have proactively made many changes to our products to comply with the Google Play Store ToS, including... But we and other companies still face considerable uncertainty and unpredictability...
Fixed :P
This sounds incredibly suspicious - what is Google omitting here? I've never heard of the DMA forbidding direct results.
Seems like all they're trying to do is stand up to foreign megacorps since American antitrust has been a farce.
Well, it doesn't seem to be true because a quick search right now shows hotel rates and flights from the hotel or airline's own site and various aggregators. Is Google breaking the law or what am I missing?
The EU is wasting their citizens time with this law. It should be reverted as the current version is hurting consumers.
I can not fucking believe Google is carrying water for the Apple abomination like this.
Something says to me that DMA is working as intended.
The AI features cause the same problems they are claiming the DMA creates...
[0]: https://www.iicom.org/profile/dr-eliana-garces/
[1]: https://www.dmcforum.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/120625-F...
Break these companies the fuck up.
Say Google ... of all people. I would be ashamed working for a company and writing this shit. Ashamed of myself!
>The DMA’s biggest challenge remains: How do we boost innovation and deliver cutting-edge products to Europe while navigating complex and untested new rules?
Why should Europe want to cave to Goggle's desire to deepen its clawhold on Europe's market? To help it extend its monopoly deep into the rest of civilization?
That's exactly what "leveling the playing field" means, which the Author also acknowledged in his introduction.
By forcing Google to link to intermediaries, it takes away the power and monopoly of Google and give competitors a chance.
This post is nothing but lobbying for Google and against the DMA with shady and unscrupulous arguments.
I find Google more useful than Apple (they provide more stuff for the price to pay, which is bit of "privacy" that doesn't matter that much since Ads will exist no matter what) and they have been generally more open; but they winning is really sad.
They are at a size where basically nobody can meaningfully compete, because nobody gets to drain billions of dollars for being the most used entry point to the web.
I think the rules are working and alternatives are already starting to develop for various things, which is basically why they are complaining. So, they can fuck off.
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