Microsoft to Force Install the Microsoft 365 Copilot App in October
Posted4 months agoActive3 months ago
bleepingcomputer.comTechstoryHigh profile
heatednegative
Debate
85/100
MicrosoftWindowsAI AdoptionUser Experience
Key topics
Microsoft
Windows
AI Adoption
User Experience
Microsoft is set to automatically install the Microsoft 365 Copilot app on Windows devices in October, sparking widespread criticism and frustration among users regarding forced updates and AI integration.
Snapshot generated from the HN discussion
Discussion Activity
Very active discussionFirst comment
5m
Peak period
147
Day 1
Avg / period
26.7
Comment distribution160 data points
Loading chart...
Based on 160 loaded comments
Key moments
- 01Story posted
Sep 15, 2025 at 12:22 PM EDT
4 months ago
Step 01 - 02First comment
Sep 15, 2025 at 12:27 PM EDT
5m after posting
Step 02 - 03Peak activity
147 comments in Day 1
Hottest window of the conversation
Step 03 - 04Latest activity
Sep 24, 2025 at 2:18 PM EDT
3 months ago
Step 04
Generating AI Summary...
Analyzing up to 500 comments to identify key contributors and discussion patterns
ID: 45251593Type: storyLast synced: 11/20/2025, 8:32:40 PM
Want the full context?
Jump to the original sources
Read the primary article or dive into the live Hacker News thread when you're ready.
Notably:
- You can opt out (Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Copilot > Enable the "Turn off Windows Copilot" policy)
- You won't get it if you're in the EU
- You'll only get it if you have an M365 app installed (not all windows users)
I would swear I removed copilot from a Dell laptop I just purchased for my father, and it came back after a major update. I could be wrong.
I've had feature-update crapware get reinstalled twice, some reinsallations happen only after a reboot and/or 5-10min delay. So upgrade, clean. Reboot, clean again. Reboot, wait 10 min, clean again.
This during the last year and for dozens of machines.
Didn't they get hauled in front of congress for stuff like this back in the 90's?
I feel like they are playing with fire. Once anti-trust comes back into vogue, this is going to be big trouble for them.
[1] OneDrive privacy confirmed by my own consumer complaint to the Washington State Office of the Attorney General over ambiguities related to AI training and general privacy in Microsoft’s documentation. Both my complaint and Microsoft’s official response are subject to public record and can be legally actionable in the future.
If you want things exactly your way, there's the Gentoo route if you don't mind supporting it yourself.
I have no idea what distro fits the bill the best, but surely it’s not like the only two options are: “be treated with no respect as the user” and “sink all of your time into into fixing things up”
Like how Linux Mint doesn’t force snaps on you like Ubuntu does. Probably not it, but one step of many in the right direction. Plain Debian is probably pretty close.
When you think of it in a supply chain sense, Linux is one giant outsourcing operation and a whole bunch of “not my problem” project management styles.
It had the fewest Linux-typical papercuts, it was well-documented, and most importantly required the least amount of system tinkering I've ever done on Linux, allowing me to use my operating system to actually operate my system. It wasn't as turnkey as macOS, wasn't as compatible as Windows, and wasn't as "tinker" friendly as other distros, but it _worked_.
Then again, I was using the default GNOME spin, and I also try to meet OS's in the middle instead of brazenly insisting on my way or the highway. But it _is_ used as a base for RHEL, so it's not like Fedora is a typical stone soup distro either.
You're correct in thinking of Fedora that way - that's my take on it too. But Windows has a lot of glue and infrastructure that we all take for granted that Linux hasn't really implemented yet. Like how calling a Win32 function, in some cases, integrates functionality found in both the Windows desktop as well as backend processes - stuff that would be several lines/files long in Linux, and would likely need conditional logic for GNOME and KDE/Qt desktops.
Even Fedora, which is really rock solid and more "neutral" compared to other distros (lookin' at you, Ubuntu Snap Store), there's a LOT that gets left to either terminal commands or config files when compared to Windows. And even as a dev, I don't want to have to RTFM literally every time I want to change a single setting. Windows solved this 30+ years ago, and it's honestly stupid that the Linux community/field can't even seemingly comprehend this in almost 2026 now.
Yes, thanks for confirming what I wrote... Uh, wait a moment, what? Most Linux users know nothing about systemd? Are we talking about the same Linux, the OS whose main users are developers and sysadmins?
> even after it has a hard dependency on an IBM AI
What are you on about? Nothing of the sort has happened.
My personal issue with it is that logs are stored in a database that (unless it's changed) the documentation is the implementation. There are a few places where people have reverse engineered the design to document it, but it would have been much better for them to use a documented format like sqlite.
I'm dreaming of a day to come where all people on earth get a bare minimum of freedom to install, remove and disable whatever piece of software on their devices. As a non-EU citizen, I have to confess I'm having some jealous feeling of European citizens because they have a superior authority fighting big companies on behalf of them.
In exchange, we go to the Theater (classic, not movies) for 30€ and we don’t have Copilot on our computer. We don’t have the translation on Airpods, and we have to click all cookie banners.
If I had a visa for the USA, I’d be there.
Which is less than the co-pay you pay on good US insurance.
>I pay my best engineer 60k€
Why don't you pay them more?
That's the fee charged for giving you aspirin in a US hospital. I can't imagine why you think his US medical access would be better.
Now do broadway in New York. Hell, do off-broadway in new york and it's either barely the same price or even more expensive. Are you sarcastically making the opposite point, I can't tell.
Sincerely, a Norwegian guy who thinks the difference is important.
no game is worth that.
And we're working hard[0] to identify you based on yours.
Will wonders never cease?
[0] https://archive.ph/v0puA
I wish people would stop bringing this up which has not been true for years. Around 40-50% of kernel level anti cheats work and are supported (in user space).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45050913
Not to mention that AAA or any games with anti cheat are in the minority of all games.
Bazzite isn't going to be as flexible as some other distros, but it's goal is to make the Linux transition as easy as possible. It's aimed primarily at gamers but you'll get a full OS that you can do all the normal stuff on
Edit: Not arch but fedora.
It can load into a desktop environment by default and you can install Flatpacks, and it comes setup for gaming out of the box. That's enough for 90% of people.
Kubuntu is Debian but i don't think that has caused any issues.
Since i got the deck i don't really use the PC for gaming much though.
This is all purely my anecdotal opinion.
For some reason the video acceleration in Steam itself will break running games if you alt-tab back and forth. But it can be disabled in the menus, and I haven't missed it at all.
I have never, ever, in my entire life, seen a tech work so hard to be everywhere while simultaneously not being very useful.
I feel like that one still hasn't really worked out, and I do occasionally use Bitcoin to buy things
Are you not paying attention? Web3 is going just great![0]
[0] https://www.web3isgoinggreat.com/
In terms of web3, I think you could broadly say Bitcoin (though it was large before web3 so that one's muddy) and Etherium. But even then... given what they are, I'm not sure in what sense these are meant to be Goliaths...? It's alternative payment processors that have incredibly low adoption compared to virtually every other. They're "big" in the sense that they have a lot of traction relative to other crypto, but I still have never used the shit even once and I do not feel I am missing out even slightly.
I've used LLMs FAR more than any crypto, and I still see it largely as a neat way to get out of writing boring code, and a good rubber duck to bounce ideas off of when debugging. I wouldn't pay for it if I had to.
The only thing I know crypto for is being the new and preferred payment method for scammers, and that you used to be able to buy drugs with it but not anymore. And godawful avatar collections, I guess. I wouldn't call that a Goliath myself but. shrug
It's remarkably fucking annoying and is genuinely one of the worst UX decisions Apple has made in like a decade.
No product in our entire history has been so aggressively pushed into everyone's face. If there's a person alive in modern society who hasn't had 4000 AI apps blasted at them... where are they and how do I achieve this nirvana?
Those things solved problems. Nobody needed to be convinced an iPhone was a good idea; it was an iPod, a PDA, and a newspaper stuffed into a device the size of a credit card that you carried around with you and worked no matter where you were. That's a GREAT idea. No one needed to be convinced about what made an iPhone (or Android, or even Blackberry) a useful and good thing.
Conversely, AWS made starting web businesses no longer require on premises servers, or really knowing anything about servers. You picked what you needed, and if you needed more at some point, you picked that. You could even dynamically allocate and deallocate servers on an incredibly widely available and robust data-center backend. That's HUGE. Numerous massive companies today may not have ever gotten started if not for AWS and it's now making far more money than Amazon's retail business does, and we know how huge it is because East-1 went down some years back, and a third of the freaking Internet stopped working correctly.
What problem even remotely on this level does an LLM solve?
It still took a couple of years, though.
Of course in hindsight its rather obvious. But there were other smartphones and they were (on paper at least) superior in quite a few ways.
I mean was that because of the iPhone as a concept or because it debuted as an exclusive on the worst cell carrier in the United States lol
You had Symbian, Palm, Windows CE devices which had all of that and keyboards. I won't pretend it was 100% obvious to me who was going to win at the time (and I don't think I was unique in that).
Translation problem. Google Translate does job poorly, if you compare with chatgpt. Especially if there are mix of languages in input.
Basic search of common, Wikipedia-level knowledge, to explain something. LLM is good at it.
- They have rapidly diminishing returns on higher contexts. They are very easy to overload with user information. You can post-train them, but that’s too much into actual computer science to be useful to the average office worker. They can work well as a co-worker assistant in a few cases, but they really can’t replace humans long term.
- LLMs only really work well when given the ability to call on-device tooling. Which, with a cloud system like Copilot, is going to be super tame and underwhelming because of lawsuits and various business deals. Tool calling is only really agnostic when you’re running the model yourself on your own device.
- On the topic of on-device models, there’s also the fact that AI provider companies have been caught evading things like robots.txt and causing so much crawling activity that it effectively becomes a DDoS attack. On-device AI doesn’t solve this totally, but most people likely won’t be pushing their gaming GPUs to the absolute limit 24/7 to constantly hit websites with crawl requests.
One 386 netbook runs xbuntu w/ firefox to waste hours in the dangerous wild except for HN. It's all a happy arrested-development `Smell of Teen Spirit' nook I continue growing in.
It should be a huge red flag if companies have to force stuff on users.
Sorry if pointing that out is pedantic or rude, but it seems pretty material to the validity of the claim, at least to me.
It was so (comically) bad that I ended up sharing a lot of screenshots on my process trying to make it work with my team just for entertainment value lol.
One time I asked it to do a diff between "col A" and "col B" and it started telling me it was a "goddess of light" blabla. I'm assuming because the random values in col A and col B completely polluted it's context window so it spewed nonsense back.
EDIT: I know the article is about the MSFT counterpart products. I've not used those with Copilot so can't speak to their quality.
But the goddess hallucination was the wildest and funniest one.
The dimensional merge is real! Did it also start talking about how it's a Hyperdimension Neptunia CPU?
Reminds me of when I worked at a company once who hired a new marketing VP.
First quarter he showed up he hired a bunch of cronies.
Second quarter he announced that their new YouTube ads were so great now that NOBODY had ever chosen to skip their ads the entire second quarter. I saw the ads ... they had shortened all the youtube ads to the length that the ads were unskippable. Guaranteed "success".
I installed Linux - Debian 13 with the Gnome desktop - on a few machines which used to only run Windows. These machines are used by non-technical family members aged 14 to 50. When starting the machine they get the choice between booting either Debian or Windows with files on the older Windows installs being available from within the Linux sessions.
I recently checked which system was used most and was surprised to see that this ended up being Debian, on some machines Windows was not even started after I explained the workings of the machines. Linux has been 'ready for the desktop' for decades now while Microsoft is doing its best to make Windows less and less suitable for general-purpose desktop use. Even their former strongholds have withered, especially gaming is now better done on Linux than on recent Windows iterations. I suspect they know this and are trying to reap the last remaining fruit before the plantation succumbs to the self-inflicted disease since I see no other explanation for their clearly user-hostile actions.
Again, not trying to disagree, just curious to understand.
MacOS already does that. You're not going to drag a video file to the spreadsheet app icon with much success, but if the app knows how to handle it then it will work. I can't imagine using an OS these days that doesn't have that functionality.
I gotta say, I'm not a Windows user anymore, but it would drive me nuts if I couldn't do that.
Finder (the MacOS version of File Explorer on Windows) is an app you commonly interact with every day for several minutes. If it doesn't work well that's hours of your life you spend fighting the system instead of getting things done.
Those are the kinds of things that made me move away from Windows 10 years ago.
I'd say Windows went to shit entirely because of Nadella. "Mobile first, cloud first, fuck the rest"
https://libquotes.com/howard-h-aiken/quote/lbz3l3x
I imagine (based on my experiences as a now-former MS employee) that someone's (or some group's) bonus is tied to the number of Copilot seats installed. Which makes them oblivious/uncaring as to who might push back or how a user might feel. That's muh bonus, brah!
And since CoPilot is high profile, it's gets lots of support from the C-suite, limiting meaningful pushback. And here we are. I suggest learning to use gpedit if you don't already know how.
But don't worry, once bonuses are handed out, those same geniuses will find some other high profile initiative to boost their comp and level. Then we'll see some other square peg destructively jammed into a round hole.
I'm about over it. My only hangup at this point is that Ableton Live doesn't run on Linux and I can't live without it. I may consider replacing it with Bitwig 6 when it's released, which is Linux native.
I'll include the link because it does help:
https://github.com/builtbybel/Flyoobe/releases
Considering the web page in a browser can easily eat >5gb RAM just to display a single conversation (it's honestly mind boggling; how can something use 5gb of memory and a noticeable amount of CPU just to display relatively little and lightly formatted text?), having it self-contained makes killing it to reclaim memory easy.
For those of you wanting to get more angry, the "menu key" on my new Thinkpad has the default action of Copilot and the Copilot logo printed on it. On the other hand, he Ctrl key is finally in the -r-i-g-h-t- left place at least...
I thought Ctrl being in the right place on the new keyboard would be nice - sadly it seems to be the worst Thinkpad keyboard I've ever used... not even sure why, but all the spacing just seems slightly but very noticeably wrong.
An upsell and way to justify their 3 trillion marketcap
Only thing going on is maximising capital extraction from the moat they created. End users no longer matter as long as the numbers keep going up.
:)
75 more comments available on Hacker News