Seoul Says Us Must Fix Its Visa System If It Wants Korea's Investments

Good for them. If USA is not a reliable ally anymore, not a surprise there are active talks on free trade agreement between China, Japan and Korea.

How sure are we of that? Did we really get this information from trustworthy sources?

I was speaking solely about politics, i.e. winning elections. And if you can't win elections, none of your other policies matter.

If Trump wanted leverage in negotiations and to appear strong on immigration... fine.

But there are so many ways of accomplishing that that didn't also alienate and piss off an ally to the extent this perp photo shoot did.

Hell, the government could have just politely detained them, put out a big splashy press release, then worked with the South Korean embassy to repatriate them. Same benefit, fewer hard feelings.

In contrast, as a result now there's going to be much higher government and South Korean domestic pushback on exactly the kind of US investment Trump wants.

It's one thing when someone does something distasteful but gets benefit out of going that far. It's another when they do it because they're inept.

The only people this excess played well for was Trump's base, and as others pointed out, there are plenty of less trade sensitive immigrant groups that could have been substituted, if that was the goal.

It’s not about economics. It’s about racism and nationalism through and through. You can’t look at it with a rationalist lens or it can’t make sense. The issue is the dilution of a perceived whiteness of the American identity being threatened by non-white immigration. It doesn’t matter why the Korean workers were here or how tenuous or nonexistent the immigration violation claims were. It matters they weren’t white.

For proof, which hasn’t been particularly hidden, see the extreme efforts to create a false narrative (including the president confronting a foreign leader with photographs from a completely different country) of white persecution in South Africa and a recalibration of refugee program to prioritize white South Africans. It’s the whole “reverse discrimination” malarkey (as if discrimination is structurally one way) playing out with fabrication and lies since they couldn’t find real facts. A rationalist argument can’t be found, because it’s not rational - it’s just racist nationalism.

This is going to be remembered in history globally as one of the embarrassing low points that beggars the question of American moral standing , which is likewise a fallacious tu quoque argument. What’s going on ignores the fact the founding fathers were enlightenment liberal humanists of the extreme degree, and while creatures of their time, endeavored hard to establish a construct in the constitution and bill of rights a system that will eventually and stably arrive at an ideal liberal humanist society. They recognized with pretty clear sightedness their own imperfections in this regard and recognized society changes slowly, but believed the constitution and bill of rights would make the change inexorable. I for one agree after studying it for some time. This means this aberration we see today, which is reminiscent of Sulla’s attack on the Roman republic, was well planned for an accounted for. They knew clearly and better than we do the natural tendency of man, and specifically corrupt ambitious racist theologists as their time was steeped in, and built a system that mean reverts always towards a liberal humanist outcome.

The question to my mind is will I live to see the damage undone and is my daughter equipped to right the ship in her life time.

Make no mistake: This is not grand strategy. It's grandstanding. It's not part of some 5D chess plan. It's just Trump and his ilk being petty, racist bullies, trying desperately to show that they're "more manly" than anyone else.

> 1. Lose all the allies, become isolated.

UK will stay. And 50%+ of Poles, maybe more. Also this time Sounth America won't allow isolation - a) they think promises from China are worth something; b) they may have hopes of looting richer lands, russian-wave style, streaight into bullet streams...

> 2. Allies are less powerful, the world starts another world war

Read: Germans explode again... And just looks like their rulers are owned by external enemies working on exactly that - in what other country womans can be mass ripped by some new arrivals ?? And gov just do censorship... Look like society preparation for unrest...

> 3. Get sneakily attacked

And make some dead americans by attacking something stupid ? Becose stories are important for top star generals...

Also "spinners" already started to be distibuted country wide...

And when Germans attacked Poland in '39 they had lists of "intelligence" - like teachers and priests and now we have social media...

> 4. Win the war by entering when everyone is already spent out after fighting for several years.

Only if US will NOT be attacked at the start...

> 5. Everyone likes USA because they helped.

Certainly not loosing side :)

> 6. Profit.

Yeah. If only US will be on winners side and not in bigger isolation.

But times changed. Nukes. Balistic missiles. Baloons with viruses. Rare earth metals are basic need. Termovision cameras on the ground and satelites (at least in first stage). Mr. Musk saying: Anywhere on Earth, 40 minutes, 9 million :)

And nukes again. Pretty much exclude all owners from bigger conflict...

And history learned - maybe official WW3 part will not pour out of Europe this time. But in this case it won't be a "world" war. Or maybe "war" will be somewhere else...

I did some research on B1/B2 Visa's it looks like the work allowed is rather restricted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45207369

You have to ignore just about every other part of the story to arrive at this breathless conclusion.

Let’s remember that for this project alone Hyundai invested more money than 99% of us will ever see into this country, and more sum labor hours than any of our individual lives. That’s not what disrespect looks like.

Maybe their visas were not in order so ok enforce that. But not by having their engineers perp walked on live television.

As a side note, if we are going to judge the Hyundai engineers then we must also believe that Elon Musk should have been deported due to his well known early career visa violations. or be damned as hypocrites.

From statements made and queries in law enforcement databases, [redacted] has not violated his visa; however, the Atlanta Field Office Director has mandated [redacted] be presented as a Voluntary Departure. [Redacted] has accepted voluntary departure despite not violating his B1/B2 visa requirements.”

Its right there in the link the parent gave. As in they had a visa and ice acknowledged no violation of the terms of that visa in very plain english.

Holding people in custody in order to negotiate a business deal is the definition of hostage taking.

> South Korean officials originally hoped the Korean Air plane would leave Atlanta as early as Wednesday afternoon local time, shortly after it arrived from Seoul. But the foreign ministry said its departure was likely to be delayed “due to circumstances on the U.S. side,” and a spokesperson for Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport later said that the charter flight had been canceled.

> At a meeting with Secretary of State Marco Rubio in Washington on Wednesday, South Korean Foreign Minister Cho Hyun learned that Trump had ordered the suspension of the repatriation process in order to discuss with South Korea whether its detained nationals — all of them skilled workers who were helping to set up an electric vehicle battery plant — should remain in the U.S. to continue their work rather than being sent home.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1101

8 USC §1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) has H-1B, 8 USC §1101(a)(15)(E)(iii) has E-3, and so on.

A treaty is not self-executing under US law unless it is both ratified by 2/3 of the Senate pursuant to the Treaty Clause of the Constitution and also contains language expressing that it will be self-executing upon ratification, in which case it has the same domestic legal effect as an Act of Congress. See Medellín v. Texas, 552 U.S. 491 (2008), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medell%C3%ADn_v._Texas for a recent SCOTUS precedent about this.

Many agreements which are treated internationally as treaties, including most US free trade agreements, are not considered as such for purposes of US constitutional law; many others are not self-executing even when they are ratified through the Treaty Clause procedure. These only have effect in US domestic law when implemented by implementing legislation passed by Congress, or to whatever extent the executive branch handles implementation through regulations, policies, or similar which it already has the authority to promulgate without new legislation.

There really isn’t much between a B-1 and an H1-B, so there isn’t much of a path forward here. That factory isn’t getting built until the USA re-instates previous exceptions.

I mean, there’s literally hundreds of countries, why would I go somewhere with the risk of being arbitrarily detained, if I can help it at all?

This new extremely strict interpretation means that the only safe way to travel to the USA for work is on a h1-b or similar heavyweight working visas.

This is fine if you wish to interpret it this strictly. There are of course consequences and as noted by many many non-US people above the ESTA business visa waiver is near worthless under such strict interpretation. Which means no more short term trips to the US office nor conferences or trade shows. The lack of something lighter weight than a full working visa for these sorts of things means the USA is closed for business.