The Air Is Hissing Out of the Overinflated AI Balloon
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The AI bubble is bursting, and the fast food industry's attempts to automate drive-thru ordering are a case in point. While some commenters argue that AI could easily handle taking orders, others point out that existing kiosk-based systems have been a disaster, plagued by poor user interfaces, lag, and frequent breakdowns. As one commenter quipped, "in 2025 how is it so hard to make a user interface that doesn't lag like a bastard?" The discussion highlights the complexities of implementing technology in real-world settings, with some preferring the efficiency of kiosks and others nostalgic for human interaction.
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If AI can't do this job, it probably can't do yours either.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
Bottom line: AI has very poor grasp of reality --- because (surprise, surprise) it has zero real world experience.
That said, AI could do that job perfectly well. The reason we still have human to human interaction when you order is that it creates a more interesting environment for employees, who crave at least some kind of human contact. And customers will pay marginally more for the food if they get some human contact as well.
As an experience though, they could hardly have implemented it in a worse way. A big part of the reason I don't go to McDonald's any more is that the experience of using the ordering kiosks is so awful compared to just telling a human what I want.
Huh, for me is the polar opposite. Maybe it's because I mumble, is unclear or don't speak the native language as well as the natives where I live, but I always preferred the kiosks. I seem to always get what I order then, and it's a lot easier to customize things. Generally just feels faster, which I guess is the most important thing about fast-food, I want to be in-and-out of there as quick as possible, the less humans I have to deal with, the better.
Isn't it up to the person who is receiving the order to ask clarifying questions then? Since they know it's potentially unclear/ambiguous, why not try to resolve the ambiguity before making the order?
If you're clarifying at this level, there are likely many other questions that you'd ask.
Whenever I took my kids there I told them "if you don't want it the way they make it then don't order it."
Hard to know for a fact without knowing where I live, I'm guessing :) FWIW, it's not true at McDonalds in Spain, they definitely have popular stuff sitting behind the counter for longer than the items you customize here.
Also, this is absolutely NOT a customer issue. It's a restaurant issue to clarify. Plain means different things at different restaurants, so the solution is to _always_ clarify exactly what the customer means.
I have this conversation enough that I now call out "plain no cheese" and ensure "no cheese" is written on the ticket.
Also "I'll take a number 3 meal plain" is void of an actual subject for the type of burger.
That's a fun regional difference with McDonalds it seems, we definitely have (literally) "Cheeseburger" as a independent item on the menu compared to "Hamburger" here in Spain: https://i.imgur.com/XDNuiUW.png
That's quite funny actually, Spain tends to translate everything and have everything in English, dubbed, but apparently the McDonalds Cheeseburger got to remain, and wasn't renamed to "Hamburguesa con Queso" as one would have expected :)
For a "cheeseburger" cheese is obviously integral. For a Big Mac, it's less clear but a "plain" Big Mac usually includes cheese.
For a fancy place's "deluxe Wagyu beef burger" that has cheese/truffles/a bunch of other stuff, a "plain" version will likely not have cheese.
Further, they _only_ showcase the "burger with cheese variant" in their combos and special. This further drives home that you should be thinking about cheese in the same way as toppings.
But one thing I know for sure, in Germany they are called Cheeseburger, not only called, but written as such on the menu.
in 2025 how is it so hard to make a user interface that doesn't lag like a bastard on every scroll/click/...
it's almost as bad as their terrible, terrible, terrible app
Because everything is done in fucking React or Node or Blazor or whatever the newest flavor of this wRiTe oNcE rUn aNyWheRe bollocks is, because it always, always, always the exact same fucking thing: abstracting UI elements to fucking goddamn JavaScript and running it in a browser.
And heaven knows McDonald's can't possibly pay for proper software development, they only made like 14 billion last year. They're barely scraping by.
I've taken over several react apps over the years and one thing I always end up doing is remove a bunch of spinners because you don't need a spinner when the page loads instantly - as it should. Its very common for pages to take 10-60+ seconds to load, and when I look into it it's always obvious why they're so slow and easy to fix. The devs who made it just sucked.
I always have to remind people to add spinners, just because it loads instantly on your developer machine with a fiber connection (if not talking to a local container even) doesn't mean it will in the real world. But spinners only show when actively fetching so if it's fast they only show for a split-second. It's the best of both worlds.
What I might do is just add a global spinner using tanstack query, what I don't like is having 50 different spinners for every little component. Makes the site feel janky and weird.
I just don't see the point unless it's loading for 5+ seconds. If it's faster than that then the user won't have time to wonder if it's stuck anyway. And I prefer to have one or very few requests, rather than 10+ different ones for a single page.
Maybe in theory, but in practice I see it very rarely. Maybe it starts out great and fast and then devolves into a shitfest.
Given how frequent this is, maybe it’s time to actually blame the technology itself if it makes it so easy to mess up?
There is no programming language that you can't write slow code in.
And the best way is just sit at the table, order with your phone and somebody brings the tray to you.
Those kiosks are horrific and greatly reduced the number of visits I made to McDonald's. The insane pricing since then further reduced those visits to zero.
Massive LLMs had a breakout moment with chat, and now everyone has invested HARD into that technology while in fact there is really no good reason to think that massive models (billions of parameters, requiring billions of dollars to train, and requiring power-gulping servers to run) are needed or even preferred for most AI tasks.
We had algorithmic automation for all kinds of things in the 80s, and that has been steadily improving for everything from chess engines to computer vision to content suggestion ever since. Photo touch-up runs on handheld devices and is nearly instantaneous. Self-checkout is ubiquitous. Digital CNC and 3D printing is no longer to relegated to professionals, the point that amateurs can buy off-the-shelf solutions and start creating products with a few mouse clicks.
Billions is being spent on shovels in the current gold rush but are they really needed?
> I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do laundry and dishes.
https://twitter.com/AuthorJMac/status/1773679197631701238?la...
Order taking via drive through can be surprisingly hard.
* Often lots of background noise
* Sometimes multiple people try to order (often with one of those being way away from the mic)
* People don't always know exactly what they want or what it's called. Sometimes things have a regional or local name that's not on the board. Right now, I order a "$5 meal deal at McDonals". This is often not listed on the board and it's not called "$5 meal deal" - but literally every cashier knows exactly what I'm talking about. I doubt AI would figure this out.
* People often have custom requests that don't follow the "official menu".
* The actual food ticketing system that gets sent to the grill has significant limitations in resolution. If you're doing anything other than a basic deletion, it's likely just coming through to the grill as "ask me".
* It's extremely hard to handle edge cases like makeup meals, incorrect orders, coupons, etc. These generally require human judgement and a bit of contextual understanding. Generally, these are things you only understand by actually looking at the real world. For example, is there an unaccounted burger now sitting at the end of the grill line - looks like someone grabbed the wrong food.
* Human cashiers are really good at hearing someone shoutout something like "ice cream machine is down" or "hold on fries" or "we're out of chicken" or "no fire sauce" and understanding what the means in terms of orders. It's a pain to get an AI system to be able to understand all of this nuance.
Take automated phone menu systems, for example.
"If you are calling about X, press 1
If you are calling about Y, press 2
If you are calling about Z, press 3"
customers presses 0 because they are calling about none-of-the-above and wants to talk to a human
"I'm sorry. I don't recognize that menu option. To hear the options again, please press 9."
Oh just today, to give another example of how automation can seriously frustrate end users, I'm trying to get a Square POS account approved for my new business. Their automated verification system sent me a form requesting more information about my business because certain information "could not be verified." One of the questions on the form was asking me to explain a discrepancy between the legal business name I typed in when setting up the account and the business name as it appears on the articles of incorporation that I submitted. The discrepancy in question: white-space and capitalization. No human being would read the two strings as distinct or recognize any discrepancy. Only software does that.
So size/scale is not as easy a concept to model in our minds as we might assume.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OtngSHtz-cc
I don't think the problem was AI technology...
Mainly that ai is a useful tool. Sometimes it is magical but has limits and is often wrong. It can be a great illustrator of sunk cost fallacy when working on very complex problems. But light years faster and more useful than googling for solutions when faced with a difficult debugging challenge. On net I would much prefer to have ai around than not.
I think it is a miss that software development is completely omitted in this article, esp a tech or tech adjacent publication that's been around for forever.
I agree sort of, but on the other hand we don't know their true cost, whether that's the out-of-pocket expenses, or the pollution and high electricity/water costs that will result.
"I propose a fourth: AI is now as good as it's going to get, and that's neither as good nor as bad as its fans and haters think…"
I suppose I disagree with "as good as it's going to get" … but for the time being (this decade?) this might be correct.
Hard to take the rest of it seriously with them taking a position like that. I can't think of a time that's been true for any technology in my career. Whether they were ones I found useful or not.
No? When new tech arrives there is always a bunch of low hanging fruit around so there is quick progress immediately afterwards, but then it flatlines relatively quickly and progress is as slow as usual again.
So its a safe bet that progress will slow down to the usual level sooner or later, and it seems to be around now for text models, as this flatlining happens faster the more you invest into it since you exhaust the low hanging fruit faster.
> AI is now as good as it's going to get
And that's just silly, from my point of view.
I see the same thing with text models, you can say they improve but not in a game changing way, and you have the same scenario as cars. It wouldn't be wrong for a person to say "cars are as good as they ever going to get" 50 years ago, in his lifetime he was right, nothing happened with cars that would force him to change his habits during his life.
But up to 50 years ago cars changed quite quickly, so you could say it is weird to say cars wouldn't start flying or such in 50 years, but here we are, nothing dramatically changed.
Who are these two voices? Well, we've got fragmede, who, looking through their HN profile, works at NVIDIA as a "senior AI infrastructure engineer", and we've got mh-, who, looking through their HN profile, works at Wunderkind, which is "pioneering a new category of AI agentic marketing".
So, the two people in here pushing messaging about how great and valuable AI is, and how it'll continue to get better, have their jobs/livelihood tied to AI and people continuing to pour money into AI.
It almost always turns out that way. The people protesting the loudest for some idea universally are somehow tied to profiting by convincing people of that idea. Not that that means they're wrong, of course. Just providing context.
My opinion was simply in reaction to an, IMO, nonsensical claim:
> AI is now as good as it's going to get
And it would have been the same no matter what* technology we're discussing.
* Ok, someone commented NFTs. But I never considered that a technology.
(Since it's in the thread now: my opinions are mine, not my employer's.)
quite a lot has changed with cars
doesn't really have anything to do with the future of AI, tho
Air travel (thanks to efficiencies) costs a fraction of what it used to, look up what % of people have traveled by air and compare that to previous decades.
Cars are safer than ever, per mile driven, for their occupants and substantially more comfortable. They're also more efficient, but we've consciously traded that for heavier cars for crash safety.
Lossless audio codecs are ubiquitous, and there are low-loss low-latency wireless audio codecs deployed to billions of devices.
Agree with the AI statement, though.
That saves a lot of money, and despite complaining people seem to accept the tradeoff of cheaper flights for an unpleasant experience. That comes from using basically the same technology as a half-century ago, with more customers.
Not to mention airframe improvements in both aerodynamics and materials.
AI Companies are still overhyped.
https://www.longtermtrends.net/home-price-vs-inflation/
I don't care if they vanish. I just want the hype to die. The last few months this site would more truthfully have been titled LLM News. I use LLMs but for the most part I find discussions about them boring.
I don't know that AI is going to miss in the same way by 15 years but I also don't see how it can possibly justify the promises implied by the current valuations and investments. A thing nobody wants to talk about is how quickly all the hardware that was so frantically purchased is depreciating, for instance. And even missing by 5 years with the exponential time value of money is still missing by a lot, although perhaps I won't italicize this particular "lot".
> We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run.
If that's the case, LLMs cannot replace these primary source summarizing clowns fast enough.
[1]https://nanda.media.mit.edu/ai_report_2025.pdf
It feels like tokens are the new pieces of flair.
And from that PDF, I'm not seeing anything that is incongruent with what is stated in TFA:
From TFA:
> To be precise, the report states: "The GenAI Divide is starkest in deployment rates, only 5 percent of custom enterprise AI tools reach production." It's not that people aren't using AI tools. They are. There's a whole shadow world of people using AI at work. They're just not using them "for" serious work. Instead, outside of IT's purview, they use ChatGPT and the like "for simple work, 70 percent prefer AI for drafting emails, 65 percent for basic analysis. But for anything complex or long-term, humans dominate by 9-to-1 margins."
From PDF:
> Tools like ChatGPT and Copilot are widely adopted. Over 80 percent of organizations have explored or piloted them, and nearly 40 percent report deployment. But these tools primarily enhance individual productivity, not P&L performance. Meanwhile, enterprise-grade systems, custom or vendor-sold, are being quietly rejected. Sixty percent of organizations evaluated such tools, but only 20 percent reached pilot stage and just 5 percent reached production. Most fail due to brittle workflows, lack of contextual learning, and misalignment with day-to-day operations.
0: https://mlq.ai/media/quarterly_decks/v0.1_State_of_AI_in_Bus...
I very much doubt speech and voice recognition and synthesis, as well as visual object recognition, are "as good as they will get" (however scary some of the practical applications might look like). Ditto specialized neural networks like aforementioned AlphaFold.
General-purpose chatbots trained on randomly selected data from stolen books and social media (and increasingly on its own slop)? Very likely.
Architectures allowing the said chatbots trigger actions online or (worse yet) IRL? Almost definitely.
I'm not sure about target audience of the TheRegister but here on HN we should be more precise in our discussion.
The service provider got little useful out of it because I'm fine using their free versions for it.
Also. AI is not as good as it's going to get. It going to get much much better than it is but it's going to follow a mostly mundane trajectory getting there.
According to the AI hype merchants we should see titanic super-AGI slug it out in the sky, by year 2023. That clearly did not happen.
What we will get is hype for current model+1 and disappointment when it's released for the coming decades.
The hackers will be glad to see the price of AI compute and hardware drop like a rock once everyone in the VC world realizes they've overbuilt, and a sell-off happens. We'll be using those resources to build the next things almost immediately. In fact, I'd be surprised if planning for that hadn't already started.
The VC type will ... I have no idea, actually.. I'm not a profit driven person. But experience shows they'll be around to do it all again for the next bubble in a decade or so.
As for AI itself, it will continue to get better and deliver value for those who know how to use it. For me, ChatGPT5 is an amazing improvement for generating code.
is just silly. It'll get way better. Not sure about the timing but it'll happen.
Say farewell to the AI bubble, and get ready for the crash
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44964548
Tech, chip stock sell-off continues as AI bubble fears mount
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44965187
Is the A.I. Sell-Off the Start of Something Bigger?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44963715
AI is predominantly replacing outsourced, offshore workers
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44940944
95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44974104